Labour defeated.....

[rocker]

Okay.

I have an issue with the money grabbing little bas.......who are busy polluting the middle of London, and other places and whining about the fact that the world stopped giving them the living they think it owed them.

Let's put a few things straight here.

Most of these idiots are going to university in the first place to get a qualification which will generate them substantially more than the majority of working people in the UK earn. It isn't like they won't be able to afford at that point to pay it back.

Next up.

You, me, and many others here had to pay our own damn way through college, and further training, and buying our own tools WHILE WE WORKED FOR IT.

Next up.

I did my BA in Business Studies out of my own pocket. WHILE WORKING. I didn't whine to anyone about it, or expect anyone else to pay for it. I'm paying for my own MBA out of my pocket, which is nearly £25k in total. My only whine about that is that I'm not whining about it. It was my choice.

Next up.

I could have chosen NOT to pay for all the education, training and tools, etc. In that case I would have expected to be happy working in McDonalds, or sweeping streets, or doing another job that didn't require me to pay out for everything I have.

Next Up.

While I paid my own way through all of that BY WORKING FOR IT - these sponging little ***** are expecting me to pay for them to earn three times what I do in a few years time through my taxes. How do I benefit from that? I already pay enough toward the NHS, and all the other things I might need.

Next Up.

What possible use is there to any of these damn protesters in rampaging through London acting like animals? It doesn't get them support, win them sympathy, or help any normal person understand their cause. Getting on with it, and doing the time in education might help me understand why I pay a solicitor £300 an hour, or a doctor in private practice a similar amount.

Next Up.

The whole idea that the state pays for education is a new one - it wasn't that long ago EVERYONE paid for more than a basic education.

Finally.

The whole thing just really ----es me off. If they want the education that much they pay for it. Just the same way we all have - and just the same way if you want anything you pay for it. Why is that so hard for them to get through their stupid skulls?

I just find it very hard to tolerate people who think anyone owes them anything for nothing.

Prove yourself and I'll pay you for the skills you use for my benefit.

Spot on, there. The interesting this as well is that these chumps will get student loans for the amounts which they won't have to pay until they are earning enough.....

You try marching into the bank come '18th edition' time and say 'I want a loan to pay for the training for this, I want it in full, I want it now, I want a knock-down interest rate and I don't want to start paying until I feel the course starts paying for itself' and see how far you get.

A hefty percentage of them won't ever have to pay it off as their degrees are so worthless that they'll never get a job paying over 20 grand or whatever the threshold is.

 

[jeremy]

That's strange. Normally when I post a "tory scum" view point I need a wide-brimmed poo resistant hat, or maybe this view is more common sense than party related?

 

[Des 56]

Anybody doing a craft apprentiship,they do it with penalties imposed by the way of lower or sometimes no wages, hard study, and costs for tools books etc

These university whingers dont have my sympathy
My 19 year old is full time in college,he lives at home,we as a family have never qualified for any assistance with his living costs in any way,it costs us for everything
He gets nothing off the state,no dole ,no loan,no assistance for transport,no living costs at all( because my earnings is deemed ok to pay it all)

Its a shame the lads training for trades aren't treated as generously and paid as handsomely as those prima donnas who's earnings will dwarf the earnings of the qualified hard working trainees of our own industry

 

[k.k]

If you've got the money, then all is o.k . It will alienate some less well off.,Seems like the usual Conservative Action in all honesty

 

[IQ Electrical]

If you've got the money, then all is o.k . It will alienate some less well off.,Seems like the usual Conservative Action in all honesty

No, if you've got the money then you pay the full fees, if not then you have help, how's that conservative action?

Labour presided over 10 years of strong economic growth and spent every bit and a whole lot more.

Imagine running your business and generating immense profits for 10 years then ending up at the bank, arranging massive loans just to stay afloat, maybe questions would be asked of your ability to run a business?

Then the wars, then the selling of the gold, it goes on and on....

 

[derek preece]

It does concern me that some kids from poorer backgrounds will be put off studying for a medical degree because of the perceived costs, but perhaps it will stop money being wasted on pointless degrees like studying lady gaga, (just as I was typing this I did a search and it turns out it is an American University offering this and you have to pay there!!? )

 

[brucelee]

unlucky some of the rich will now have to pay what a shame and no i deffinatly didnt vote for the torys

It doesnt matter which party is in government they all screw it up in there own way

Labour spent everything and wasted it all in the good times but lets not forget what the torys did last time under maggie thatcher i lived through it and watched all the pits close, all the public owned companies sold
recession which lead to the loss of my job working for a electrical contractors doing new build

the torys cut and slash everything to hold the money back to ensure theres and there bankers futures are certain to subsidise the elites way of existence
the bankers where the ones that caused this with there greed but none of the governments have done much about it just watched them pay fat bonuses why the rest of the country goes to the dogs

If any of you had acted in such a reckless way you can be sure the taxman would arrive and take you for everything they could

but i still as a carer got no help with funding, training, advice on self employment, i cant even get help of them to get a job and just get told of them
there is no help you dont have to work you are exempt
your not even classed as unemployed
heres £53.10 we expect you to look after your partner 35 hrs a week
and if you do any training you have to give up your £53 and your NI contributions
this was the case under the torys last time
this was the case under labour
either way no one helps me so why should you or i fund the students who have shown what they are about with the utter disregard for the people who died in all the conflicts so they have the right to air there opinions without reprisal

yes the students fees should be more and yes they should have to pay it all back as they will have a far better future than most of you and I

and some of the courses they study there degrees for are a complete joke and waste of money unlucky get over it as there is nothing you can do to change it now

 

[malcolmsanford]

While I agree about some in university and the stupidity of the courses there is another side which I think should be aired

I have a degree I got mine 4 yrs ago after over 30 yrs in the Electrical Industry going from the old A, B, C through HNC, HND and finally Bsc but I'm a rag a**e sparks. My wife is a Nurse so we are purely working class.

Of our 3 daughters 1 is married. My middle daughter is trying to be a barrister in London after her law degree, which don't stop there as she as to do an apprenticeship as such to go before the bar, my youngest is taking A levels this year and will be going to Uni hopfully next year.

My middle daughter owes nearly 17, 000 pounds in loans and overdrafts. She worked 2 jobs at Uni during the week as a waitress in a pub and then at the weekends in a shop and she still owes that.

The youngest one already as a job in Waitrose and will transfer to a local one where she goes to Uni. She will be doing English major with American Literature and History and she fully expects to also have the same amount of debt.

Not becasue they are my daughters, but these girls are hard working. After meeting many of my middle daughters friends while she was at Uni I found most of them to be the same. We forget they are young and all youngsters want to party and have a good time.

It is hard for working class students and the fees are just a proportion of the costs. I'm sure quite a few of us would be daunted by that level of debt. True they don't have to pay it off before they hit the threshold of 15,000 pounds, but it is still a huge sum to pay. I do have sympathy for them, but not in the way they have gone about protesting.

 

[rocker]

Don't get me wrong, there's no question that the fees they have to pay, as well as everything else, is very high, and there would have to be certain sacrifices later in life in order to repay he debt. The thing is though, is that it's not meant to be easy. The way the system has gone of the last 10 years, it has been easy. As you say, it may put people off going to university, and if it puts off the people who are going there simply for a three year doss, then all the better!

 

[jojo]

House of Lords has just voted to increase the tuition fees to £9000 from £3290 as of 2012.

And it wont be just the students who suffer, Nothing stopping anyone else now putting up their fees???

 

[k.k]

No, if you've got the money then you pay the full fees, if not then you have help, how's that conservative action?

Labour presided over 10 years of strong economic growth and spent every bit and a whole lot more.

Imagine running your business and generating immense profits for 10 years then ending up at the bank, arranging massive loans just to stay afloat, maybe questions would be asked of your ability to run a business?

Then the wars, then the selling of the gold, it goes on and on....

Fair comment iq. Maybe it doesnt matter who you vote...the government always gets in!

 

[martysparky]

If there is going to be less people going to uni wont that mean an increase somewhere else.

 

[accordfire]

I think, on balance, there are always going to be arguments on both sides - no one solution is ever going to keep everyone happy, in the sense that if education is free, we all pay for it in taxes. If the people receiving the education pay full whack, they remain unhappy at the debt encumbered, and fear for a future which in theory should pay the education back a hundred fold and more.

However, what I think pretty well all of these arguments miss, is a fundamental flaw, or set of flaws in our education system.

It does not reflect what the majority of our young actually need to learn for survival and growth in today's society.

I have an idea in my head here about what it is I am trying to say, but predictably, am finding it hard to articulate in a concise and simple way.

Where I want to go with it, I suppose, is in a way heading back to the old eleven plus, but not in the sense of whether or not a child is capable of Grammar education - I feel that those not displaying academic prowess should be allowed out of a school system which doesn't benefit them or society, and into a proper vocational system which is equipped to equip them properly for the world of work, including some kind of work experience (even on redundant council buildings), and an emphasis on life skills (including parenting, house keeping, and social skills) while they are still young enough not to have had all the interest beaten out of them (figuratively speaking).

I also feel that taking such vocational route should NOT be an easy option, and should introduce them to proper working hours, perhaps with a small income, which in turn is teaching them some sort of value for money.

In some ways, I guess I am suggesting a return to older style apprenticeships to an extent, but I think we need that, before all the skill in every trade is completely legislated out.

By doing this, I feel we'd also offer an educational system worth far more, that many more "wasted" youths would buy into, and which would relieve the unrealistic pressure on university places, and their need to offer dumbed down degree courses in subjects that can't possibly have any value in real life - Lady ruddy Gaga among them.

Now, cocoa time. Where's my slippers...... God, I'm feeling like an old man with all of this.

 

[Paul.M]

Agree to the above. One thing that I think would help is that all schools finish at the age of 18. Normal schooling up to 16 then a directional learning just like college up until your 18? Then from 18 - 21 a formal college system and then university. Yes this would mean more costs from the tax payer but how much would be saved by not having to pay benefits to single teenage mums and 17 year old smack heads? A bit strong I know but I believe it would be better in the long run. Another option is some form of national service, military or academic giving some form of direction to a young persons life.

 

[Phil]

i am in a position of being able to see it from all angles really. i left school with not a single gcse above a D and no chance whatsoever of going to uni. so if you had have asked me the question 10 years ago should my taxes fund someone going to unii would have honestly said NO.
i have struggled and bought all my own tools and sorted all of my quals out 16th 17th etc and worked hard for them too. my first teaching qual i did whilst working and so was college. i managed to get my A1 award whilst re doing my gcse`s and finally got the grades i would have wanted when leaving schol. i am now at uni full time doing a degree and balancing family life / work etc. i don`t think the tax payer should be burdened with the 80% the government used to put in for an education but i believe a 50/50 costing would have been a better way of doing it. then yes the degree would have been more seriously looked into before jumping in. my only hopes are that the governments plans to make it accessible to the poorer children within society come through as i would hate to see uni`s back to the elite systems they used to be with only middle and upper class in them. you can imagine where that would leave the rest of the working class when every academic is from a background of class and thus giving a greater class divide. I am one of the fortunate ones who`s fees are capped as my foot is in the door this year and i will only pay back 7 thousand a year to be there which is quite a scary thought when looking at 28 grand to be in debt by. but i feel its a worthwhile debt and hopefully it will pay back through salary etc.

on the issues of trades and the young we unfortunately have disregarded the trades for far too long and undervalued them and that`s where the quick fix courses have been able to come in and try to take over. i believe more importance as bill said should be paid to the youngsters and giving them a trade they can work towards when at school. i am fortunate to be in a position where i have the practical abilities a lot of the students i sit with just have no idea of at all.