Labour Leadership

[malcolmsanford]

Taking out ISIS will be quite straight forward if there is a collective will and that will is coming after Paris. Bombing alone will not succeed even the gulf war of shock and awe only achieved so much, it took boots on the ground to finish it, whether that will come is another thing.

The main concern for the West is "the enemy within" and unfortunately there is a percentage of Muslims in the west that are in that category. Being in Saudi for all these years I think I have quite a good grasp on Islam, though no expert.

The cliche of "the majority are peace loving" is quite accurate, though not entirely true. They do have doctrines and they beleive rigourously in them. If and when, and it is only a matter of when we join in in Syria that enemy within will strike.

It is how we deal with them that is more of a concern for me

 

[sean_ork]

Of MPs

That's just another assumption isnt it.

Maybe you know something the Cameroon chap doesn't know, as of this date there's not been a vote so no one knows.

I'd bet a lot of money that if the public were asked to vote, they'd vote against, hopefully having learnt to our very recent mistakes.

A fair number of MPs are rather prone to selective memory loss when it suits their political ambitions so I'd not be so confidant of them doing the right thing.

 

[sean_ork]

The main concern for the West is "the enemy within" and unfortunately there is a percentage of Muslims in the west that are in that category. Being in Saudi for all these years I think I have quite a good grasp on Islam, though no expert.

The cliche of "the majority are peace loving" is quite accurate, though not entirely true. They do have doctrines and they beleive rigourously in them. If and when, and it is only a matter of when we join in in Syria that enemy within will strike

The same can be said for just about every other religion, our home grown religions have caused a fair amount of deaths and trauma over the years - the apparently acceptable form of indoctrination in our so called society is just rather more subtle these days.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Fortunately there are very few doctrines that actively encourage mass suicide as a weapon........and that is where you have the teriffying difference from other factions.

Apart from Kamakaze in WW II there is little modern day experience in how to deal with such fanaticism

 

[sean_ork]

Fortunately there are very few doctrines that actively encourage mass suicide as a weapon........and that is where you have the teriffying difference from other factions.

Apart from Kamakaze in WW II there is little modern day experience in how to deal with such fanaticism

That may well be an ISIS tactic, its certainly not an Muslim doctrine

Most parts are London are probably within reach of folks suitable equipped to deal with an "event" in the same way as the French did, I doubt we've got the resources anywhere else.

 

[malcolmsanford]

That may well be an ISIS tactic, its certainly not an Muslim doctrine

Most parts are London are probably within reach of folks suitable equipped to deal with an "event" in the same way as the French did, I doubt we've got the resources anywhere else.

Hmmmm interesting not sure the Hamas bombers over the years, the twin tower bombers, the london 07/07 and the list goes on were anything at all to do with ISIS............what do you think?

 

[sean_ork]

Hmmmm interesting not sure the Hamas bombers over the years, the twin tower bombers, the london 07/07 and the list goes on were anything at all to do with ISIS............what do you think?

ISIS is just a distillation of those numerous terrorist groups - suicide attacks are simply a fanatical tactic, used since time began.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Not sure that the Red brigade, IRA, Badher Meinhoff group etc etc used these tactics in modern times ..........

Please though name any other doctrine that in the last 20 yrs uses suicide tactics I'm always open to education

 

[sean_ork]

Not sure that the Red brigade, IRA, Badher Meinhoff group etc etc used these tactics in modern times ..........

Please though name any other doctrine that in the last 20 yrs uses suicide tactics I'm always open to education

No offence chap, this is a rather pointless line of debate - whilst those youve mentioned haven't adopted the exploding vest fashion, they were clearly prepared to die for their cause and undertook actions where their chances of survival were limited.

 

[malcolmsanford]

And I'm sure chap that they never intentionally died for the cause they would have much rather walked away to fight again. They were killed like soldiers that they thought they were in warfare, like all soldiers may unfortunately do.

 

[sean_ork]

I hope the Labour MPs are allowed to vote how they want and not follow what I consider an idiot is sayin.

Getting back to the original question - I totally agree, MPs should vote individually based on their beliefs, having considered the beliefs and thoughts of those they are supposed to represent.

JC isnt an idiot, he's doing the right thing by wanting to explore the options - thinking that bombing (with just a few planes) areas that have already been bombed for 12 months is simply daft, only an idiot would think that's going to be productive.

 

[sean_ork]

And I'm sure chap that they never intentionally died for the cause they would have much rather walked away to fight again. They were killed like soldiers that they thought they were in warfare, like all soldiers may unfortunately do.

Youve made the mistake of giving these terrorists the credibility of calling them soldiers.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Getting back to the original question - I totally agree, MPs should vote individually based on their beliefs, having considered the beliefs and thoughts of those they are supposed to represent.

JC isnt an idiot, he's doing the right thing by wanting to explore the options - thinking that bombing (with just a few planes) areas that have already been bombed for 12 months is simply daft, only an idiot would think that's going to be productive.

MMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Pete999]

That's just another assumption isnt it.

Maybe you know something the Cameroon chap doesn't know, as of this date there's not been a vote so no one knows.

I'd bet a lot of money that if the public were asked to vote, they'd vote against, hopefully having learnt to our very recent mistakes.

A fair number of MPs are rather prone to selective memory loss when it suits their political ambitions so I'd not be so confidant of them doing the right thing.

My post is only my opinion

 

[sean_ork]

My post is only my opinion

Ditto :love: