Lack of Certificates

[charlie76]

I am posting in another thread today about a job I have quoted for a landlord and the fact that he has a number of properties and had no EICR done, ever. I was going to issue a MWC for the works I was quoting and he said he had never received a cert for any electrical work he had had done?????

Then at the weekend, I was quoting another gentleman who wants power to his summerhouse in the garden. He said there is already a cable run to as far as the summerhouse by an electrician which picks up 2 mood lights in the garden along the way. Sure enough a 6mm 3c Armoured which is buried but where it crosses his path it is pushed between the cracks in the paving. I immediately asked for the cert to which he said I never got one. I've told him I will have to run a new cable because I don't know how the armoured is buried (depth, warning tape etc) and also because of the shoddy crossing the path installation.

I'm new to the trade but quite shocked at the lack of certification on works which people have had done not historically but even in the last year or two. Is this common? Am I right here with refusing to use the armoured which is run in an unknown manner and poorly where it is visible?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

In my experience there are more uncerted installations than certed in the domestic sector. And a significant number of certs that are issued are jackanory.
Your call on the SWA....you are the electrician on the ground. Make an assessment on it's compliance with Bs7671.

 

[Octopus]

What I have noticed lately is that a customer has a part P cert but no EIC.

 

[richy3333]

I don't wish to sound sarcastic but welcome to the real world. It's quite common. Usually price is the lowest common denominator.

With your landlord all I can say is that at least in Scotland the government have resolved this issue with the latest Housing Act and now only registered electricians (or those that can prove competence) can work in rental property. I've had interesting discussions with several landlords because they can't use their usual Brian the bodger or dangerous Dave to get work done (as they perceive it) cheaper.

These same clowns are wiring new builds and the local BC just sign the works off despite the Building Regs being clear.

Re the armoured cable you could argue that its in situ and as you don't have to work it/ re-lay it your not making the installation any the worse and, thus use it? Not ideal I know but something to consider. Give the customers all the options and prices and make everything overly clear in writing and on the certificate. Under comments on the certificate write something like 'the existing 3 core armoured cable was utilised at the request of the customer despite the fact that I have informed them it appears to have not been laid at the required depth nor in a recognised installation method. The ramifications/electrical hazards have been explained to them'?

 

[Baker1988]

You do see it a lot in the domestic sector as far as i can tell it is usually because they are not willing to pay for it to be done properly and want the work done on the cheap so the people who do it so cheap are not actual electricians but people passing them self off as a electrician.

I once had an argument with an "electrician" who replaced the CU and installed a new shower circuit in my uncles house, i just out of politeness started talking to him and asked if any faults that emerged during the testing and he said that he had not done any testing the only testing that was needed was in his words "i will check to make sure it works like it should as it all worked fine before" so basically functional testing.

this was a new shower circuit and a board change to a duel rcd board and no tests at all done, i asked my uncle why he hired him and he said "He was the cheapest", unfortunately thats just the way people are now a days they want the job done as cheap as possible and aslong as it works then they dont care about certs or safety.

Sorry for the essay.

 

[Octopus]

You do see it a lot in the domestic sector as far as i can tell it is usually because they are not willing to pay for it to be done properly and want the work done on the cheap so the people who do it so cheap are not actual electricians but people passing them self off as a electrician.

I once had an argument with an "electrician" who replaced the CU and installed a new shower circuit in my uncles house, i just out of politeness started talking to him and asked if any faults that emerged during the testing and he said that he had not done any testing the only testing that was needed was in his words "i will check to make sure it works like it should as it all worked fine before" so basically functional testing.

this was a new shower circuit and a board change to a duel rcd board and no tests at all done, i asked my uncle why he hired him and he said "He was the cheapest", unfortunately thats just the way people are now a days they want the job done as cheap as possible and aslong as it works then they dont care about certs or safety.

Sorry for the essay.

It isn't always the cheapest route!

My mates dad recently paid £550.00 CASH, not invoice, no receipt, no cert, no LABC for a basic MK dual board change!

My rate would have been about £380.00 inc all the paperwork (this was last year so no metal clad required).

 

[7029 dave]

It isn't always the cheapest route!

My mates dad recently paid £550.00 CASH, not invoice, no receipt, no cert, no LABC for a basic MK dual board change!

My rate would have been about £380.00 inc all the paperwork (this was last year so no metal clad required).

Why didn't your mate ask you.?

 

[Octopus]

Why didn't your mate ask you.?

As far as I could tell, his dad just had it done - not even the son knew til after it was done!