Lazy and misleading or truth Which report

[moggy1968]

I am a a member, so I shall pen an appropriate response!!!

 

[Earthstore]

Well, had a big long reply today, telling me that the cost of a 3kw system is £10000, and they have used the government figures from the EST website, they could not factor in it is index linked, because it is not garranteed.

Who out there is selling 3kw for £10000? Forget my prices, just googled a few and you can have 3.9kw for £7-£8k, not too sure about the quality, but it is a long way from £10000 for 3kw.

Also if one assumes the RPI to be 3%, which if you look back in history 3% would be conservative, and compound that over 25 years, then your total gain will outperform any ISA.

I tried for the benefit of all, both the general public, who I am aware read this forum, and installers.

So if anybody else would like to have a pop at Which for printing such a misleading article, then please do.

 

[Energetic]

I had the same reply. I have responded to them as below. I feel our industry is getting a caning at the moment and nobody is standing up to the nonsense spouted by politicians and the media. One point i forogt to mention in the email is that Which? do an isa comparison, i wonder if they get paid for referrals to the banks/building societies that provide them? I have posted this in the Sun Lounge last night so apologies for repeating myself...

Our industry bodies should be getting the message out that PV is not dead... Give them heaps!!!



Dear .........

Thank you for your prompt reply.

I understand how you have come to the figures you have published, the fact is though, they are still misleading.

Let’s start with the initial price, installers up and down the country are routinely charging around £8K for a midrange quality 4kW system. If you could point me in the direction of some customers willing to pay £10K for 3kW I’d be most grateful! We’re hearing of people charging £6.5K for a cheap Chinese 4kW system. Your example starts with PV at a serious disadvantage based on that price alone.

By leaving out inflation you are both overstating the performance of the ISA and understating the performance of PV. Index linked investments are a rare thing these days and it provides a serious safety net for a PV customer. Adjusting the ISA rate to current published inflation figures leaves you with very little growth percentage. With the real un-doctored inflation rate it becomes even worse.

Now I’m not a financial journalist or an economist but my take on inflation is this; we are likely to see international central bank intervention in the form of quantitative easing for some time to come, leading to a higher than usual inflation rate on food, fuels, energy and the necessities of life. Now I realise none of this is guaranteed but the likelihood of this intervention is probably higher than allowing an out and out crash. I’d be interested to hear your views on this but the way I see it PV is about the best investment around. I have ISA’s, I’m renting at the moment but if I had property I would junk the ISA’s and get as much PV installed as I could.

The majority of our clients are shrewd investors and are cashing in poorer performing investments to go for PV. They are able to work the figures out for themselves. If the payback for PV was as poor as your figures suggest we would not have city institutions piling into the rent a roof schemes that we currently do, it’s a no-brainer (as much as I dislike that expression) for a professional investor, guaranteed 10% returns, every fund managers’ dream! Renewables and microgeneration represent a great opportunity for households to lessen the stranglehold that the big 6 have on us all, as bills increase so will their tariff payments and their own production will become more valuable to them.

If you’re really interested in presenting the facts and the best advice to consumers I urge you to speak to consumers or credible installers and get a real set of figures and/or a case study to look into. Contact anyone on the forum I linked to the previous email or myself, we would be happy to help. Our industry is currently being demonised by uninformed media and jaded corrupt politicians in the pockets of the big 6 energy companies. Germany has seen a reduction in wholesale energy costs due to the large scale PV and wind deployment contrary to the current treasury line that we’ll all pay more.

I feel your time would be better spent helping consumers choose the right PV company, there are some unscrupulous companies out there, the rent a roof crowd particularly insidious, often taking away the ability of many of their customers to sell their own homes or re-mortgage.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

[Top Cat]

I had the same reply. I have responded to them as below. I feel our industry is getting a caning at the moment and nobody is standing up to the nonsense spouted by politicians and the media. One point i forogt to mention in the email is that Which? do an isa comparison, i wonder if they get paid for referrals to the banks/building societies that provide them? I have posted this in the Sun Lounge last night so apologies for repeating myself...

Our industry bodies should be getting the message out that PV is not dead... Give them heaps!!!



Dear .........

Thank you for your prompt reply.

I understand how you have come to the figures you have published, the fact is though, they are still misleading.

Let’s start with the initial price, installers up and down the country are routinely charging around £8K for a midrange quality 4kW system. If you could point me in the direction of some customers willing to pay £10K for 3kW I’d be most grateful! We’re hearing of people charging £6.5K for a cheap Chinese 4kW system. Your example starts with PV at a serious disadvantage based on that price alone.

By leaving out inflation you are both overstating the performance of the ISA and understating the performance of PV. Index linked investments are a rare thing these days and it provides a serious safety net for a PV customer. Adjusting the ISA rate to current published inflation figures leaves you with very little growth percentage. With the real un-doctored inflation rate it becomes even worse.

Now I’m not a financial journalist or an economist but my take on inflation is this; we are likely to see international central bank intervention in the form of quantitative easing for some time to come, leading to a higher than usual inflation rate on food, fuels, energy and the necessities of life. Now I realise none of this is guaranteed but the likelihood of this intervention is probably higher than allowing an out and out crash. I’d be interested to hear your views on this but the way I see it PV is about the best investment around. I have ISA’s, I’m renting at the moment but if I had property I would junk the ISA’s and get as much PV installed as I could.

The majority of our clients are shrewd investors and are cashing in poorer performing investments to go for PV. They are able to work the figures out for themselves. If the payback for PV was as poor as your figures suggest we would not have city institutions piling into the rent a roof schemes that we currently do, it’s a no-brainer (as much as I dislike that expression) for a professional investor, guaranteed 10% returns, every fund managers’ dream! Renewables and microgeneration represent a great opportunity for households to lessen the stranglehold that the big 6 have on us all, as bills increase so will their tariff payments and their own production will become more valuable to them.

If you’re really interested in presenting the facts and the best advice to consumers I urge you to speak to consumers or credible installers and get a real set of figures and/or a case study to look into. Contact anyone on the forum I linked to the previous email or myself, we would be happy to help. Our industry is currently being demonised by uninformed media and jaded corrupt politicians in the pockets of the big 6 energy companies. Germany has seen a reduction in wholesale energy costs due to the large scale PV and wind deployment contrary to the current treasury line that we’ll all pay more.

I feel your time would be better spent helping consumers choose the right PV company, there are some unscrupulous companies out there, the rent a roof crowd particularly insidious, often taking away the ability of many of their customers to sell their own homes or re-mortgage.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

I don't do solar so have no vested interest.

Speaking as a lay person i think your argument is sound, to the point and very informative.

Hope you get the answers you deserve.

 

[SolarCity]

By publishing this nonsense, Which? are no better than the cowboy installers that mislead customers.

 

[Energetic]

No reply yet...

 

[solarsavings]

Surprised?

 

[confounded]

By publishing this nonsense, Which? are no better than the cowboy installers that mislead customers.

That was may thoughts as well, I was wondering if it is something REAL should be investigating, as protecting the customer is the main role and miss information either way should be treated the same.

 

[Somecamel]

New Article from today by Which- Solar panel installations fall by nearly 90% - May - 2012 - Which? News

 

[SolarRoofSols]

i've put in my 10 pence worth - i will look forward to their generic reply!