lead sheathed cable

[brucelee]

Hi all

my friends brother rang me to say he had drilled a hole in the wall and the power to lights has gone off

yes he has drilled the cable to be fair to him it was in back bedroom of 2 up 2 down terraced house
side of the window and not were yo would expect a cable to be

anyway I went to have a look and chased a bit of plaster off around the cable to see he had drilled a perfect hole bang in the middle of the cable and when i looked closer noticed it was lead sheathed

is it possible in anyway to repair this or should the damaged cable be replaced
I have told him its really old possibly around the 1940s and the house could do with rewiring

it has wylex fuseboard but with the replacement trip switches

on lead sheathed cable does the lead act as a earth?

I havnt had much experience of lead sheathed cables apart from ripping it out on rewires

if i do replace the faulty cable what do i do about the earthing regarding the cpc ? and then does this need rcd protecting all lights 1 circuit no rcd at present

any help and advice appreciated
my thought on it is a rewire for the whole house as it all looks original apart from newer switches and sockets

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Dont touch it. The inner cores are rubber,and invarably are rot as a pear.As soon as it's disturbed the cores will short onto the lead sheath....only option is rewiring,and if the place still has this stuff the whole lot wants shutting down.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

The lead was indeed used as the earth bruce. My mothers house down in shrewsbury had this in it together with some vir and other stuff (tinned stranded etc). You mentioned that you think this dates from the 1940s....could be older than that mate...post great war maybe? I think this type of cable has a bitumen insulation as well as paper soaked in a chemical (which is toxic). I would go for a rewire here together with a new board. Incidentally...what is the intake like here? Have the DNO been in recently or is it the old ceramic type?...........

 

[brucelee]

cheers wirepuller and glenn sparks
as soon as i saw the lead i told him it was really old and should be replaced all the lot

yes the lead is the type with the bitumen insualtion and paper soacked stuff
looks as if someone has been in at some time as the sockets and switches are fairly modern white plastic

as for the meter and cut out the meter is a new digi one and the cutout is still old style prob 60 or 80A

earthing conductor was under sized as were the tails but prob compliant when they were fitted lol back in the day

also no bonding to water or gas

not sure if the cutout was ceramic type but deffo not new

i will have a better look when i go back and give him the bad news guaranteed i will end up doing it for as cheap as chips as this is my bruvs best mate and first words out his mrs mouth was whats it going to cost lol


would it be pssible to fit a new board of henley blocks and get dno to fit isolator and new tails on there side and just rewire the lights in there entirity if he cant stretch to a full rewire

as if i rewire the lights they will need rcd and will be almost impossible just replace the damaged cable as i will probably disturb the rest


can yo tell me whats required eg
rewire the damaged cable
reire the entire lighting and fit new ccu so i can seperate the up and down lights and protect with rcd upgrade earthing and tails from a henley block leaving the existing wylex in place with the remaining circuits install 10mm main protective bonding to water and gas
I will carry out a pir on all the circuits to check for other damage ie High resistant joints and low IR and High Zs etc

Or just tell him its better to have a full rewire no matter what the cost

he is a good friend of my brother and myself so feel i have to help him out as usual

all jobs i seem to do are the worst and end up doing for free or next to nothing
I will never make any money at this rate keep thinking of advertissing as a free electrician you jsust have to feed me the mrs and kids lol



thanks Wirepuller and glennsparks

 

[Engineer54]

While i do agree that this old lead shethed cable really needs re-wiring, you tend to find that only the the exposed conductor ends and maybe a couple inches along, within the lead cable will be crumbling or deteriated to a point of imminent desaster the moment you disturb it.
Undamaged lead is virtually impervious to moisture and air, so unless the cable has led a hard life of being continuosly overloaded during it's service, the conductor insulation should be in, not a too bad condition.

The same is also said about the old TRS and CTS sheathed cables. I've personally never found this to be so, ...only the exposed terminated conductors have i seen in a very bad condition. Mostly caused by high the tempretures of light fittings, and overloading at socket outlets, where there were too few outlets provided, when these cables were installed. The TRS T&E cables i stripped out of my parents house were in such good condition, that i used them in my fathers garage to supply his socket outlets. They were still there several years later when we sold the house ....and still in good condition too!!!

 

[topquark]

Better that you do it, it'll be done properly and he won't be ripped off!

 

[Des 56]

If money is a big issue and they cannot do as recommended
You probably wont have to rewire the whole of the lighting or fit rcd etc

Its repair of a damaged cable only

If its shooting up past a window,it may be the supply cable to the up light
The probability is that it will be wired to a jb in the attic
Replace with a new cable,but take care not to move or bend or disturb thiose being left in situ
As long as its then surface mounted,the repair is made and part pants wont come into it

s

 

[brucelee]

Hi engineer

I have jsut done a job for my mother in law same style and age of house

it also had lead sheathed and as you say apart from at the accessories it was in good condition but at the accessories it had all deteriorated

also had VIR cable some of this was in a worse state completly crumbling in large sections some still good there cpcs of the sockets were jsut bare twisted copper strands which were earthed to the copper pipes of which were few as most was still lead also still had lead piping in the walls for the old gas lamps most of this has been ripped out including all water pipes and gas
someof the joints under the boards were jsust twisted together and taped
most of the accessories were jsut bare conductors as the insualation had gone
someone had done a bit of repair and used tape for insualtion behind some of the switches other jsut left and were touching metal back boxes were they passed through from landing switch to bedroom
I have never tried to mess with lead apart from ripping it out

I think my brothers mate and his mrs will be gutted if i have to tell them to get it all rewired as with everyone at the minute money is tight so guaranteed if i do it it will be free or next to nothing

so whats the safest and cheapest alternative i can give them to as a complete rewire can i just rewire the complete lighting and install a new board and bonding etc

test all the other circuits and if ok leave them be in the the old board for now and replace as and when they can afford which these circuits will probably also be lead or VIR type cable made by BICC as was the mrs mums house


that will be the most expensive shelf he has ever tried to put up and his mrs was after killing him for the lights being off
I TOLD HIM DONT PUT ANYMORE SHELVES UP AND IF YA DO BUY A METAL STUD AND WIRE DETECTER

 

[GLENNSPARK]

The thing is bruce if you go for a new dis board its notifyable as i am sure you are aware already:earmuffs: which means also a full inspection and test....can you be sure it will all come back ok? I bet your Zs wont i tell you now and as for IR..........

 

[brucelee]

yep this was my fear

if i do the new ccu jsut for the lighting full tests which i am going to do anyway a full pir as it prob never had one ever

I will try to do as des says if not next option rewire all kighting and fit a seperate new board for this then as and wehn they can afford do the rest of the rewire if they choose unless the pir turns up any nastys

 

[Engineer54]

Bruce,

Well, if the cash is tight for him right now, then while rewiring that room, just as well to rewire the upstairs lighting as a whole, at least when you come to re-wire the house, that'll already be done and dusted, ...And it ain't gonna cost him too much more if it's only a 2 up 2 down house! .......And the sparky's dead cheap too! ...lol!!!

 

[brucelee]

yeah and prob want me to supply the free cable to

 

[brucelee]

engineer can i ask yo what do you do in china mate been meaning to ask it must pay well lol

i will never be rich as all jobs i get are friends etc and i must be the only free spark in blighty

 

[Engineer54]

yep this was my fear

if i do the new ccu jsut for the lighting full tests which i am going to do anyway a full pir as it prob never had one ever

I will try to do as des says if not next option rewire all kighting and fit a seperate new board for this then as and wehn they can afford do the rest of the rewire if they choose unless the pir turns up any nastys

Do as Des has suggested, and repair the damaged cable for your mate.

Then tell him the bad news, ....that they had better start saving for that rewire !! lol!!!

 

[Des 56]

yeah and prob want me to supply the free cable to

"And whats wrong with "not charging"
Engineer 54 has given you all the technical information on lead sheathed cable and how much did he charge you Bruce
:book: