Lets scrap Part P! and have a system like this instead.

[Superspark23]

Can we have a system where every installation has its own log book, where it details any work carried out by who, with their own personal registration number, so all work is traceable, if needed. Every notifiable job done, will be sent directly to bco for a fee of £10, larger companies will end up spending more, while smaller companies and people just starting out will pay less than they do currently. Maybe the registration number could be incorporated with trade cards like ecs, jib, cscs ect... and make it covers commercial and industrial too instead of just domestic work.

And installations would need to be checked atleast once every 5 years for insurance reasons similar to car mot's

 

[Superspark23]

I didn't mean installers checked, more electrical installations had PIR's every 5 years, or as recommended for property insurance. But the installers work could be checked at random and the bco will contact the client direct.

 

[Des 56]

I was told once upon a time that in another land across the sea
When a property is to be constructed,a logbook photos of the ongoing construction is the norm
The buyer can view the property from start to finished job

If that is true,I have always thought it to be a simple very handy bit of information, and if anything was to be made compulsory,that log book would get my vote

 

[grimysparks80]

It doesnt matter what rules you bring in. The cowboys will ignore them and people will still pay them because they are cheaper.
The genuine sparks will have to up their prices to pay for the new schemes. so people will pay more cowboys. Then more people will have dodgy work done and more rules will be brought in and genuine sparks will charge more to pay for them.
it will go on like that forever or until they start properly punishing cowboys.

 

[Geordie Spark]

One of the worst - if not THE worst - jobs I have ever seen was in a Council house that had been "revitalised", meaning it had been extended, fitted with new windows, doors, kitchen & bathroom as well as a new heating system & a complete rewire.

The rewire had been inspected & tested by the Council's own inspector and it was a complete shambles. It would have been easier to make a list of the parts that actually complied with the "regs" than make one of parts that didn't !!

That was back in 1976 & I've held our Local Authority in complete contempt ever since.

You can have as many schemes as you like and pay their rip-off fees but you'll never completely eradicate poor workmanship, the same as you'll never eradicate bad drivers from our roads.

 

[SoulTy1066]

You shouldn't be able to buy electrical cable and accessories without having a part p card or ecs card which proves you've done a full apprenticeship and 2391. I know that would affect the likes of B&Q but it's the only way I can think that would work

 

[madmac]

We used to have a way of trying to maintain standards/workmanship in the industry at large in all sectors.........IT WAS CALLED AN APPRENTICESHIP!!!

 

[Engineer54]

You shouldn't be able to buy electrical cable and accessories without having a part p card or ecs card which proves you've done a full apprenticeship and 2391. I know that would affect the likes of B&Q but it's the only way I can think that would work

You mean like stopping people buying building materials, RSJs and the like, in case they cause there house to fall down around them. We are NOT the electrical police, and nor should we be. You need to clean-up your own house, before blaming everyone else for the state of some installations, which have often been installed and left by ''so-called qualified electricians''

Also good to remember, those that do muck around with there own home electrics often give you, a good living, in putting things right for them!!!

Instead of the continual support of these scam providers, that have provided a route for low qualified installers into our industry and that are making some very good profits out of you working for a living!!! You would be far better off, putting your protest efforts into raising the very REAL need for a National Register Of Qualified Electricians. An institute with real powers, to monitor and act when a registered member (if they actually manage to get on the register) has been found to be installing sub-standard or down right dangerous installations. How many Scam providers have ever taken any action against one of there members?? Not many, ...or none at all!!

If you take time and think about it, a NRQE can and will revolution the industry, and do away with all the scam providers and a few other institutions too along the way, putting money back in your pocket...

DON'T blame home owners, and the general public for the miserable state of the UK electrical industry, Part Pee or anything else, ....it has absolutly nothing to do with them, and everything to do with what is happening within our electrical industry...

 

[Engineer54]

I can see your point 54 but some stuff you come across is so bad it is a genuine and serious risk to life. I mean, what are you supposed to do?leave it but tell the customer (whence the inevitable question arises "how much" and "well its been ok for all this time") or dou pretend you didnt see it (not an option as far as i am concerned) after all if you come across a dangerous situation (code 1) whether you have done the work or not you are supposed to isolate the offending situation (make safe).......

That is their problem....NOT yours!! No-one can ever rid this world of idiots, no matter what enforcement is in place. Your roll is to undertake electrical work for a fee when and as requested. If your client is too stupid for their own and their families good, by not being prepared to rectify a dangerous situation, so be it, you fill in the appropriate paperwork absolving yourself from any blame, and move on to the next job of work!! .... Your not the Electrical Police....

 

[Superspark23]

The easiest way to solve the issues is making it mandatory for housholders to have an PIR done every 5 years, for there house insurance, and everything held in a service book like it is for your car MOT's. It wont stop the cowboys sure, but it'll make people think twice before doing some DIY electrics, and there will then be a record on site on who did what when. And if at a later date another electrician finds somthing that shouldn't be you can report it immiately.

 

[millwall ken]

You shouldn't be able to buy electrical cable and accessories without having a part p card or ecs card which proves you've done a full apprenticeship and 2391. I know that would affect the likes of B&Q but it's the only way I can think that would work

Nonsense, why should buying some cable be restricted to 'approved' status sparkies. I'm not approved, BUT I can damn well wire and test mate. All the governing bodies have to do is to make people more aware of part poo though the gogglebox, insurance companies to clamp down on uncertificated work, and increased penalties on home owners who use the cowboys. I'm off to buy some cable now.

 

[Engineer54]

The easiest way to solve the issues is making it mandatory for housholders to have an PIR done every 5 years, for there house insurance, and everything held in a service book like it is for your car MOT's. It wont stop the cowboys sure, but it'll make people think twice before doing some DIY electrics, and there will then be a record on site on who did what when. And if at a later date another electrician finds somthing that shouldn't be you can report it immiately.

Stop this dammed worrying about homeowners etc, ....It's none of your business what they do in there own homes... The only time any shoddy or dangerous work to a property is going to effect others, is on the sale of the property. ...So That should be the Only time a compulsory PIR is required, all others are advisory/recommended periods...

 

[Engineer54]

careful super..we might reep the 54 whirlwind again! On a serious note though 54 has a point about how far do authorities go with the public on such stuff? My only concern is that someone will suffer a fatal shock due to undertaking work that they dont fully understand but like 54 implies....they have to be the ones to make those decisions.........

Sorry, ...but this crap about restricting individuals rights, by dictating what they can and can't purchase, will only end up further down the line, the worse for everyone. As for restricting the sale of electrical accessories and the like to ''part pee'' cards, ... There are a good number of them, that shouldn't be let loose anywhere near an electrical installation, let alone the kitchen fitters, plumbers etc... But no-one seems too interested in getting rid of them from our industry.

 

[netblindpaul]

You can't restrict the supply of electrical goods.
What about the large factory whose maintenance manager wants to buy the materials to rewire an office block with a new db etc.
why should they use a Part P registered spark when the work is commercial, & the onus is on them to comply?

 

[netblindpaul]

Well, I'm not Eng54, but I believe the answer lies with the insurance companies.
They have been badly hit by the financial disaster that is the current recession and will yet be hit again.
Their fight back is to tighten up on "business" policy wording.
Many policies now require PIR & PAT etc. if the client does not fully comply with all aspects of the policy then the whole policy is null and void, when this comes across to domestic then this will sort things as the insurer can specify that they require the work to be done by someone xyz etc. this will then force the insured parties to use competent persons.
There is a flaw in this, and that is for large commercial/industrial where by they have their own competent persons.
It will come and it is coming, and it has come in, it is just that a lot of insurance policy holders just don't check the small print, nor do their brokers/advisors!