Lighting circuit with 2A & 5A sockets

Octopus · Feb 23, 2015

So, 1970 ish flat, 16ed board fitted in 2007, MCB covering lighting circuit. Lighting circuit has 4 x 2A/5A sockets on it.

Should they be covered by RCD/RCBO?

My feeling is no and code it C3, with a recommendation to upgrade MCB to RCBO?

Thoughts please chaps.

Hawk · Feb 23, 2015

I would have thought no as it was done in line with the regulations at that time. I take it it's not tt and its only lighting plugs that can fit in the sockets?

davesparks · Feb 23, 2015

Hawk said:
I would have thought no as it was done in line with the regulations at that time. I take it it's not tt and its only lighting plugs that can fit in the sockets?

It is only 2A or 5A plugs that fit in the sockets, which in a domestic environment will only be lighting. In other environments it could be any number of things on such plugs, not just lighting.

Octopus · Feb 23, 2015

One of the sockets had a 13A fitting on it and had been tripping the MCB!!

Deleted member 9648 · Feb 23, 2015

Yes they should be....411.3.3. But if they complied at the time of installation and are not likely to supply equipment outdoors....(clearly not) then code 3.
If you lablel them as specifically for table lamps then no code at all IMO 411.3.3 (b)

Recently I got called out to a similar install with 13a sockets instead of 2/5a's. During a dinner party they'd plugged in a 2kw fan heater....untill someone noticed the dimmer switch was on fire!

spark 68 · Feb 23, 2015

Usually on the either/or type codes I look at the rest of it as a whole, if it is all spot on other than being to the earlier edition I tend to be a bit more generous and code more leniently, OTHO hand if it is a pile of poo with other C2s then I code more harshly.

davesparks · Feb 23, 2015

wirepuller said:
If you lablel them as specifically for table lamps then no code at all IMO 411.3.3 (b)

fire!

Seriously ? If having a socket which only the lamps can be plugged in to and is controlled by a lightswitch isn't enough what the hell difference is a label going to make?

Andy78 · Feb 23, 2015

I would code the lack of RCD additional protection for the sockets as C3. I have only ever once issued a C2 for this issue in fact.
However if there is a 13A outlet in place of a 5A outlet (I think this is the case here) on this lighting circuit, then it must be a C2 surely due to the lack of co-ordination between potential current draw and rating of accessories such as light switches. The dangers are pointed out ably by wirepuller's example in post #5.

Octopus · Feb 23, 2015

davesparks said:
Seriously ? If having a socket which only the lamps can be plugged in to and is controlled by a lightswitch isn't enough what the hell difference is a label going to make?

They aren't controlled by a switch!

Octopus · Feb 23, 2015

Andy78 said:
I would code the lack of RCD additional protection for the sockets as C3. I have only ever once issued a C2 for this issue in fact.
However if there is a 13A outlet in place of a 5A outlet (I think this is the case here) on this lighting circuit, then it must be a C2 surely due to the lack of co-ordination between potential current draw and rating of accessories such as light switches. The dangers are pointed out ably by wirepuller's example in post #5.

Yup - I didn't really mention that on the EICR as the client commented about a problem and wanted it fixing!

davesparks · Feb 23, 2015

Murdoch said:
They aren't controlled by a switch!

Sorry, silly assumption really. I still stand by my point though that are not general use sockets and being a completely different size and shape plug counts as being restricted to a specific load.

Octopus · Feb 23, 2015

davesparks said:
Sorry, silly assumption really. I still stand by my point though that are not general use sockets and being a completely different size and shape plug counts as being restricted to a specific load.

BUT it didn't stop a muppet changing a 2A to 13A

Octopus · Feb 23, 2015

I did notice this "neat" bit of earth sleeving on the shaver point.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Lighting circuit with 2A & 5A sockets

Yup its normal to use green and yellow but a bit of blue and a bit of brown!!

davesparks · Feb 23, 2015

Murdoch said:
BUT it didn't stop a muppet changing a 2A to 13A

I'm sure it didn't, but that is a problem in its own right in a regular domestic property.

Deleted member 9648 · Feb 23, 2015

davesparks said:
Seriously ? If having a socket which only the lamps can be plugged in to and is controlled by a lightswitch isn't enough what the hell difference is a label going to make?

davesparks said:
Sorry, silly assumption really. I still stand by my point though that are not general use sockets and being a completely different size and shape plug counts as being restricted to a specific load.

I understand where you are coming from but the question is about codeing for lack of RCD protection to a socket outlet. I'll refer you to the reg I quoted which makes no distinction on socket type....only that the rating is 20a or less. Which means that in order not to code a 2/5a socket must either have rcd protection,or be specifically labelled. You are assuming that DIY dave will know that a 2/5a socket is only for a table lamp,thats an assumption too far.