Lighting fault!

S

SSE

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One of the boys I go to college with has a strange lighting fault. I've copied & pasted the e-mail he sent below to see what you guys think. I'm pretty puzzled tbh.

Right basically I've wired 4 spotlights with LED lamps. The wiring goes like so; feed & neutral to first switch with switch & neutral out to first light on to 2nd & so on. Neutrals connected at back of switch in connectors. When I turn the lights on everything turns on fine, when I turn them off it's as if they're turning off but not completely. The lamps are ever so slightly lit. When I turned them on I tested between L&E, L&N & N&E & everything was as it should be. When I turned it off however, I was getting 80v between Neutral & earth. Can't for the life of me understand what's wrong?! I disconnected the 3-core & earth so that it was just switching from the first switch & it was switching on & off properly?? Any ideas?

Any ideas chaps?
 
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had this a few times, it will be cheap led lamps, if there is no load on the circuit they can start lighting up on there own, just tell him to buy a decent lamp not a chineese cheep one,

but i wouldnt expect voltage like that on n-e unless there is a broken neutral, is it on a clipsall or lutron? or just a conventional lighting system?
 
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Take out all the other lamps on the same circuit ,ie the other rooms and see what happens , you could also feed the live and neutral at the swich on a temporary feed & see what happens , you could have a broken neutral somewhere on the lighting circuit .......
 
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shocking_eg said:
induced voltage.

common with LED's :)

edit...

is your friend saying there turning off okay once the strapper is disconnected >?
Click to expand...

Thanks. Once he totally disconnects the 3-core from both ends & just connects the feed into comm & switch into L1 everything seems to be fine?

ARK said:
had this a few times, it will be cheap led lamps, if there is no load on the circuit they can start lighting up on there own, just tell him to buy a decent lamp not a chineese cheep one,

but i wouldnt expect voltage like that on n-e unless there is a broken neutral, is it on a clipsall or lutron? or just a conventional lighting system?
Click to expand...

I'll find out which kind of lamps he used.

Sintra said:
Induced voltage as above. Fit a snubber across the load and that will cure it.
Click to expand...

Snubber?

shocking_eg said:
by the OP's description its a standard switch with 2 way control
Click to expand...

Sure is.

See the thing is when I e-mailed him back he mentioned that he had done his dining room with the same lights albeit a lot more of them a couple of months ago & there was no problem with that lights, they were turning on & off as they should. You'd think they would be doing the same as the new ones he has installed?
 
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What he means is connect it so the two cores that are together in the 3 core are switched and the single core is common to try and avoid induced voltage. That's what it seems to me
 
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Bit more info for you guys, ha. He says that these 4 new lights are on their own new circuit as there was no room on the other circuit. Does this change anything?! See if he was to swap the LED's for normal GU10's would this clear the problem seen as it could be the LED's that are causing it?
 
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maybe the other circuit is not 2 way switching. tell him to temporarily replace 1 of the LEDs with a halogen GU10. if that cures the problem, then a snubber is the answer.
 
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This gets stranger by the minute! I had the chance to have a look at it myself with him today. Problem was still present, checked connections etc, they were all fine. Changed the switches, still same problem. Disconnected the 3-core & earth at both ends & just as a small test took a small new cutting & went from spare switch to another spare switch & the problem disappeared. So this tells us the problem is the wiring you would think? Tested old wiring again & everything is fine with it!! He's going to just rewire it again, as judging by this the problem should be no more with new wiring. Very strange.
 
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SSE said:
This gets stranger by the minute! I had the chance to have a look at it myself with him today. Problem was still present, checked connections etc, they were all fine. Changed the switches, still same problem. Disconnected the 3-core & earth at both ends & just as a small test took a small new cutting & went from spare switch to another spare switch & the problem disappeared. So this tells us the problem is the wiring you would think? Tested old wiring again & everything is fine with it!! He's going to just rewire it again, as judging by this the problem should be no more with new wiring. Very strange.
Click to expand...

the strappers are introducing the voltage into the switchline maybe... ? ;)
 
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Sorry I completely forgot to give an update on this. After talking it over with a fellow sparkie he agreed & said a "snubber" would cure the problem. He gave my mate two resistors twisted together as shown in picture below, said to put one end in with live & one with neutral as suggested here & the other ends into a connector. Anyway this cured the problem! I'm not clued up on resistors etc but are the ones he gave adequate? They ok to be used? There's been no problems so far... 022.jpg
 
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They look like 2 * 140ohm 1/4W resistors in series, quite surprised they have not burnt out as you would take about 180W through them. Do they get hot? How did you insulate the leads as they will be at 230V?
 
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Richard Burns said:
They look like 2 * 140ohm 1/4W resistors in series, quite surprised they have not burnt out as you would take about 180W through them. Do they get hot? How did you insulate the leads as they will be at 230V?
Click to expand...
Look like 1 Meg resistors to me. Good to see two in series - good safety measure in case one fails. Daz
 
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Richard Burns said:
They look like 2 * 140ohm 1/4W resistors in series, quite surprised they have not burnt out as you would take about 180W through them. Do they get hot? How did you insulate the leads as they will be at 230V?
Click to expand...

I really ain't sure what size they are, I'll ask the guy who supplied them. Not sure if they get hot to be honest. He's only had the lights on once to check this cured the problem, he's not completely finished yet. I think he was possibly goin' to heatshrink the ends than go into the live & neutral & leave the other ends as they were terminated in a connector block. These are all housed in acasing along with the light connector blocks so not as if anyone can touch it.

DPG said:
Or even better, solder and sleeve with heatshrink sleeving. Daz
Click to expand...

He's planning the heatshrink I think but was just gonna leve the other ends in the connector.


I'm actually quite surprised that manufacturers don't supply something with the lights to combat this problem. I know of someone else who had this problem but he's quite happy to leave them as they are as he says they're not harming anyone!
 
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Lighting fault!
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