Limitations on electrical installation certificates

davek · May 18, 2014

trev said:
Eh? any chance of that in English mate? Sorry but it doesn't make any sense

Hi trev
Had a few beers lol basically the OP was saying that you cant put any limitations on eic but there is a example in the book i.e author of book could not find bonding clamp but had continuity on pipes. So he just wrote his findings In departure, proving the installation is save but not to 17th regs

trev · May 18, 2014

I'd also had a few Dave so between us we had no bloody chance

shanky887614 · May 18, 2014

they dont use plastic in hospitals etc, either soldered or crimped fittings usually in my experience of new builds/ward blocks

Meggerman · May 18, 2014

Eddiesparks said:
I may be way off but if the main water was running in to the building in plastic pipe then it would be unable to introduce earth potential. In this case it wouldnt need bonding. Despite what niceic say!

It will though. In a house it will very likely have earth potential through an Immersion or Boiler cpc. Therefore it will become classed as extraneous even if it itself is not.

Meggerman · May 18, 2014

That is not really a deviation as such as the regs says bond external or within 600 before branch pipework blah blah and then goes on to say or where reasonably practicable.....

trev · May 18, 2014

Meggerman said:
It will though. In a house it will very likely have earth potential through an Immersion or Boiler cpc. Therefore it will become classed as extraneous even if it itself is not.

How can a non conductive piece of plastic become an ECP?

Meggerman · May 18, 2014

trev said:
How can a non conductive piece of plastic become an ECP?

I know, it can't

. I stated classed as extraneous (I know it is not really as it is not part of the electrical installation) when really I suppose the pipe work becomes an exposed conductive part when connected through an immersion or boiler, whatever it is classed as, it is connected to earth via cpc. The thing is, it wont meet the criterial of NOT being extraneous on the IR test (>23k), so you would have to main bond it. Well that is how I see it

SirKit Breaker · May 19, 2014

Blimey this has run and run. has anyone actually had a look at an EIC and/or the Schedule of Inspections that goes with it. There isn't anything on either that has anywhere to record a LIM or N/V, unless i have missed something. If i have can you point it out to me please.

Before you all jump the gun, the forms i refer to are the IET model forms, not some made up mickey mouse NICEIC garbage.

Cheers..............Howard

trev · May 19, 2014

Meggerman said:
I know, it can't . I stated classed as extraneous (I know it is not really as it is not part of the electrical installation) when really I suppose the pipe work becomes an exposed conductive part when connected through an immersion or boiler, whatever it is classed as, it is connected to earth via cpc. The thing is, it wont meet the criterial of NOT being extraneous on the IR test (>23k), so you would have to main bond it. Well that is how I see it

So you'd bond a bit of plastic?

Meggerman · May 19, 2014

trev said:
So you'd bond a bit of plastic?

Sorry Trev, I was referring to copper pipework, just re-read eddiesparks post.

jlohm · May 19, 2014

It is not ideal to put limitations on EICs but it would be impossible not to with regards on routing of cables within prescribed zones and erection methods on a original installation, also ( not verified ) should never be used on any inspection with I would be worried if the contractor could not locate main bonding as it would be the first thing I look for on any installation. If the contractor is registered with the appropriate governing body they take responsibility for that limitation unless it's agreed with you In writing .

trev · May 20, 2014

jlohm said:
It is not ideal to put limitations on EICs but it would be impossible not to with regards on routing of cables within prescribed zones and erection methods on a original installation,

? If I've done somethng that warrants an EIC I know exactly where my cables runs are and what the erection methods are.
Remember, you're certifying YOUR work.

Zebra Stripe · May 20, 2014

jlohm said:
It is not ideal to put limitations on EICs but it would be impossible not to with regards on routing of cables within prescribed zones and erection methods on a original installation, also ( not verified ) should never be used on any inspection with I would be worried if the contractor could not locate main bonding as it would be the first thing I look for on any installation. If the contractor is registered with the appropriate governing body they take responsibility for that limitation unless it's agreed with you In writing .

Have to dissagree with you there jlohm.....so tell me, when installing a new circuit what do you put in the supply protective device characteristics box, if you cant legally access the fuse? And dont say contact DNO, cos they wont have a clue.

How about on a more complicated commercial install with no access to the main switch room, and all you are doing is running out a new lighting circuit from a remote DB, Zdb test fine, continuity to local pipe work test fine?? Maybe your the sort that wants to shut the whole commercial install down to gain a true Ze, if so thats your problem!:yesnod:

I make and design my own certs via word, based on the non-statutory BS7671 standard forms and as such I can put whatever I like on my forms......limitations, N/Vs or even kisses if appropriate...
so there:devil:

SirKit Breaker · May 20, 2014

jlohm said:
It is not ideal to put limitations on EICs but it would be impossible not to with regards on routing of cables within prescribed zones and erection methods on a original installation, also ( not verified ) should never be used on any inspection with I would be worried if the contractor could not locate main bonding as it would be the first thing I look for on any installation. If the contractor is registered with the appropriate governing body they take responsibility for that limitation unless it's agreed with you In writing .

Those things should be inspected at first fix stage so that you know they are in the right place.

Engineer54 · May 21, 2014

trev said:
How can a non conductive piece of plastic become an ECP?

Don't no what others are referring to, but i'm refering to say, a converted to plastic incoming service pipe where the existing copper pipework is still in place. In situations such as blocks of flats, office blocks and other similar large buildings, (even houses with solid concrete floors) that existing pipework can quite easily remain extraneous via/through the fabric of the building itself!!