Live Working

[brookster]

Lets ignore unusual situations that may arise in certainly sectors. There is no reason that can be justified for working on a live electrical circuit, that simple.

If you wish to test a live electrical circuit then you should be operating under a "Sanction To Test" Permit under which you confirm the circuit is safe/unsafe and if you are then going to work on it you confirm the circuit has been isolated under a LOTO system and then you should be given a separate permit to undertake the works.

The sanction to test should remain open until the work has been completed, the Lockouts removed and you have tested and proved the circuit safe and it has been re-energised.

Complicated way to do things, but that is because the world is full of people who take chances and get other people injured or killed. It is a pain in the bum to do, but it is there to save your life.

Remember, the MHSAW requires your employer to undertake RAMS before commencing works, thus you should identify the risks and then take necessary action to moderate or remove those risks, failure to do so adequately leaves your employer and possibly you liable to prosecution by the HSE, and in extreme cases, the Police for Corporate Manslaughter if they can be shown to have been willfully negligent in respect to safe operating procedures.

I agree fully with you statement, but working under a permit is still working live . The permit to work/test does not change the fact that the system is energized.
You have covered every base and precaution in regards to the work but at the end of the day it is still classed as working live.
Another point to make is that during fault finding live working (no matter the precaution taken) is a must, how could you fault find on a dead system.(fair enough some systems you could FF dead but the majority of FF is done on live equipment to easily trace the fault.)
I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested working live without safe working practices in place.

 

[Outspoken]

I agree fully with you statement, but working under a permit is still working live . The permit to work/test does not change the fact that the system is energized.
You have covered every base and precaution in regards to the work but at the end of the day it is still classed as working live.
Another point to make is that during fault finding live working (no matter the precaution taken) is a must, how could you fault find on a dead system.(fair enough some systems you could FF dead but the majority of FF is done on live equipment to easily trace the fault.)
I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested working live without safe working practices in place.

Live working and testing are two different things, yes I accept that testing a live circuit is live working, but this is why there is a specific permit for testing and only those deemed competent should be undertaking it.

With regards to fault finding on a live circuit, of course we have all done it, but is this really best practice? Surely you know how to test a circuit dead to find a fault because fault finding on a circuit while energised may be dangerous..Yeah I know, whole other debate.

The fact is that obviously there are times when working on a circuit whilst live is a given, during testing is the only acceptable time this should be the case though. You cannot justify working on a live circuit under any other circumstance, and it is irrelevant how many time we have all done it (loads in my case) but that does not make it right.

 

[brookster]

Edit re read your post. Can't really argue with your point.

 

[44ALLAN]

Live working and testing are two different things, yes I accept that testing a live circuit is live working, but this is why there is a specific permit for testing and only those deemed competent should be undertaking it.
With regards to fault finding on a live circuit, of course we have all done it, but is this really best practice? Surely you know how to test a circuit dead to find a fault because fault finding on a circuit while energised may be dangerous.

Interesting topic and no doubt others have their thoughts and methods.
Personally if I was fault finding in a control circuit,for arguments sake,I find it easier to have the circuit switched on.
Testing for voltage at relevant points and eliminating parts of the circuit as you go along is something I'm comfortable with.
So,in effect,I'm live testing and live working at the same time but in a controlled safe way ( until I cant find the fault then the wander lead and shorting wires come out lol).
Don't try this at home kids

 

[brookster]

So a general take from the majority would rule that live work when it becomes live testing (though still live work) is allowed by competent persons under correct risk, method statements and safety procedures.

 

[44ALLAN]

Absolutely.

 

[Engineer54]

Lets ignore unusual situations that may arise in certainly sectors. There is no reason that can be justified for working on a live electrical circuit, that simple.

If you wish to test a live electrical circuit then you should be operating under a "Sanction To Test" Permit under which you confirm the circuit is safe/unsafe and if you are then going to work on it you confirm the circuit has been isolated under a LOTO system and then you should be given a separate permit to undertake the works.

The sanction to test should remain open until the work has been completed, the Lockouts removed and you have tested and proved the circuit safe and it has been re-energised.

Complicated way to do things, but that is because the world is full of people who take chances and get other people injured or killed. It is a pain in the bum to do, but it is there to save your life.

Remember, the MHSAW requires your employer to undertake RAMS before commencing works, thus you should identify the risks and then take necessary action to moderate or remove those risks, failure to do so adequately leaves your employer and possibly you liable to prosecution by the HSE, and in extreme cases, the Police for Corporate Manslaughter if they can be shown to have been willfully negligent in respect to safe operating procedures.

You've just explained one of the main reasons why British Industry is now on it's knees!! lol!!