Lost neutral

[Tim]

Hi guys,

Today i went to a hotel that had lost its neutral at the main incommer, and has been presumed out for around a year. The neutral link had been undone during a previous refurb and tightened up in the undone position. The problem has only been found after a small fuse board from the blue phase caught fire. Most down light transformers/florries/coffee machines etc have been fried, though it has only really affected things on the blue phase.

My questions are how does everything keep working, as it has been for a year, without a neutral, im thinking either the neutral has only recently dropped out (but then why was it done up so tightly in the undone position) or the earth has been a return path for a year or so.

My other question is why is it that almost all of the equipment affected is fed from blue phase? Could it just be that blue phase just happens to have almost all of the electronic equipment on it.

I do not have a lot of details for the job, i expect i will be back there in a week or so, we only went down today for a few hours to rig up some tempoary lights to get them back up and running.

I do not know the earthing arrangement, and by all means correct me if my assumptions are wrong.

Here are a couple of photos of stuff i found whist investigating.

If the breaker doesnt fit? cut up the board.

Breaker doesnt fit? Bend the board

Some lovely melted cables

Getting a bit hot?

Oooh pretty colours

Cable doesnt fit? Give it a haircut.

Cheers,
Tim

 

[markc123]

Im working for someone else atm and thats what ive advised, but i know they wont pay for it as the bodged refurb was only a year ago.

Ive counted over £1000 of led lamps blown already lol

To be honest, if they don't take you up on your offer of a rewire, then id probably be walking away.

You need to push for a rewire as strong and as hard as possible - it'll then teach people to get the job done correctly in the first place, and not always going for the cheapest option all the time. You any idea who's caused this carcrash? Like Archy said, get the client to give them a phonecall.

 

[Tim]

To be honest, if they don't take you up on your offer of a rewire, then id probably be walking away.

You need to push for a rewire as strong and as hard as possible - it'll then teach people to get the job done correctly in the first place, and not always going for the cheapest option all the time. You any idea who's caused this carcrash? Like Archy said, get the client to give them a phonecall.

I have told my boss that i wouldnt settle for less than a full rewire as we have no way of telling how many melted cables there are in ceiling void.

I know what company did the work, but i will refrain from mentioning them as its possible (but unlikly) that they were not the last to work on the buildings electrics. They are NIC members though.

Tim

 

[Guest55]

if a spark insisted on a rewire of a commercial without at least providing a test & inspection report first they'd probably get laughed out of the building.

no ones gonna cough up the serious money needed for the work without proof - end of.

 

[MDJ]

Biffs right, to add, suggesting a rewire to the customer without a report is not only laughable but could be embarrassing, I would have you removed from the building haha

 

[markc123]

To be honest, you're right on the EICR for the mess and use it as evidence.

But with the pictures the OP has provided the client can't be very bright if he can't see the danger for himself lol.

Aye, Mr.OP EICR it then label unsatisfactory...if it comes back satisfactory i will enter a civil partnership with MDJ :38:

 

[Guest55]

Biffs right, to add, suggesting a rewire to the customer without a report is not only laughable but could be embarrassing, I would have you removed from the building haha

exactly.
even though it looks terrible , alot of the C2's could be fixed in a couple days so pulling a £5000 rewire quote out of your arse on the basis of some burn marks wont look too clever lol.

 

[Tim]

I understand where your coming from, my view was that given the amount of melted cables we found, i only took pictures of a couple of bits, testing may not show up the damage as the cables may not be touching anything else yet. There are cables with the insulation completly melted off for around a foot but the copper is not touching anything else.

I have only been to the job for half a day but there are guys from my firm still up there and they are backing what i have said as they have found more horrors in the ceiling, some is damage from the lost neutral and some is the botched refurb.

I will conceed that an eicr first would be the better route if nothing else but to provide proof of the faults that are possible to find through testing.

Thanks for the continued advice.

Tim