NICEIC Certification Scheme Max ZS allowed on NICEIC cert seems wrong?

[Leesparkykent]

Think of the time saved AND the professional image of a computer generated cert PLUS you can email the cert and keep an electronic copy.

Hand written certs - thats so 20th Century!

Especially when you have hand writing like mine, looks like a 9 year old with a crayon lol

 

[Anthony S]

I have got a EICR to do on a pub next week. Not looking forward to it as it looks like every man and his dog has had a crack at the electrics for a few free beers lol

£5 a circuit lol

 

[telectrix]

scan your signature and add the image to the software? Thats how I do it!

'

tried that with limited success. scanned sig. then done a copy/paste, will have another go next cert.

 

[Leesparkykent]

£5 a circuit lol

Sod that lol, day rate all the way!

 

[Octopus]

'

tried that with limited success. scanned sig. then done a copy/paste, will have another go next cert.

which cert software are you using?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Icertifi app on the iPad IMO is alright has E signatures etc

 

[telectrix]

1. can't get icertify on my ipad. 2. i use lappy for certs.

 

[Leesparkykent]

1. can't get icertify on my ipad. 2. i use lappy for certs.

How come you can't get the app?

 

[telectrix]

because it needs later version of ios. forget which. my ipad is a 1st. generation model.

 

[Diddy]

Yep part p may have reduced the fires but imho and the opinion of the trade in general it may have had good intentions but the fact is the way they (the schemes) operate just does not work. I am pretty sure if I were to have access to gas safe's stats I would find a "reasonable" percentage of installers chucked out or at the very least recalled for retraining in the event of complaints about the standards of their work.
How many Part P prosecutions have there been ? Personally have not heard of one
How many gas safe related prosecutions - I would bet many times more.
To get on gas safe you must have a practical nvq3 (I believe) to get on part p...you have to pass an open book exam on regs.
Just to close here is a post from another unrelated forum im on asking sparks about a diy job in his own house that he seems to be about to undertake....

I have an outside halogen security fed with 3 core 2.5 grey cable.

Is it possible to feed the above cable to a 2 way weather proof box then from the box back to the lamp and from the other connection run a cable down the wall to a weather proof socket.
Then from the socket I would run a cable to get power to my shed.

Thanks’

That bloke posted the question up yesterday......general opinion (before I posted) told him it would all work and just do it......Maybe not in those words, but there was no "Watch out" that needs notifying or even a ref to part p.
I could reduce fires from a huge number of electrical installations in one swoop - Stop selling cable and accessories to unqualified people. Easy....infact so easy you would think only an idiot would sell these things to the untrained/unqualified.......But as we all know that's never going to happen as there is a whole industry out there that feeds the diy market and they would go to great lengths to protect their client base.
I would bet the introduction of that one piece of legislation would wipe the floor with part p and all the schemes put together...it would actually probably be more effective than the introduction of bs7671 lol.

 

[D Skelton]

Well if I could be bothered I could gather the stats from work for you or you could take my word for it. Tell me, before regulation if you left a loose connection in a property miles from where you lived and it burnt to the ground. Would you have ever known about it? The answer is no. I however would and I can tell you from first hand experience that the number of fires caused by poor electrical installations has gone down and before you start to talk to me about how the government fix the stats they can only do that after we are submitted them and I'm afraid to all you part P haters out there the figures speak for themselves.

You are right, the figures do certainly speak for themselves!

The number of domestic electrical fires in general, nationwide, since the introduction of Part P, has been on a steady decline. These statistics are clear as day and simply cannot be argued with. They are 100% correct. What is incorrect however is attributing this steady decline of domestic electrical fires solely to Part P. "Why?" I hear you ask. Well, domestic electrical fires in general were on a steady decline for years before the introduction of Part P anyway. Part P has no bearing whatsoever on the decline of domestic electrical fires.

What Part P does have a bearing on however is domestic electrical fires caused by faulty wiring. Statistics can be used in many ways to manipulate public perception. When you start to break down those statistics and look and the individual causes of domestic electrical fires in general, an entirely different picture is painted. Prior to Part P domestic electrical fires caused by faulty wiring was on a steady decline in line with the general trend, as were domestic electrical fires caused by faulty appliances, electric hobs, hair driers, chip pans and toasters etc. Upon the introduction of Part P though, the very year it was introduced in fact, domestic electrical fires caused by faulty wiring started to steadily rise, while the rest of the causes continued to decline.

Part P has had a very drastic impact on domestic electrical safety for sure. It has reduced it significantly! A short read of the Emma Shaw case, although unrelated to fires, only goes further to bolster this fact.

Statistics and figures aside for a moment, lets look at personal experience.

We as a company carry out very little domestic work these days. What domestic work we do carry out is mainly comprised of periodic inspection and testing. What I am continually finding are houses with old wiring which is still perfectly sound. It's when we look at the modern alterations to the property that things start to fall down. The new loft conversion, kitchen or extension for example that has been wired only a few yars ago that is rough as a dogs dinner in terms of electrical saftey.

Only a week ago I was carrying out a PIR for a landlord that needed his HMO licence on a house with wiring that was at least 30 years old. I never cease to be amazed by the sheer level of craftmanship displayed when inspecting old wiring. Not a single conductor out of place. What I found however was a new two storey extension built on the side of the house that had its own submain and DB. Lets just put it simply, the whole lot needed ripping out and starting from scratch. This work was carried out only two years ago and it was certified and notified by a local firm who I know is headed up by a five week wonder.

Last month I was inspecting a house that had a relatively new kitchen and a newish DB, I reckon no more than five or six years old. The landlord ensured me the work was carried out by his friend who was a 'registered' electrician as he put it. A little digging and I find out that it was the kitchen fitter who had done the wiring. He was registered none the less. Everything in the house was fine apart from... You guessed it; the kitchen and the DB! Open end ring final circuits, cables wrapped round pipes, bare connector blocks under the kitchen units, insulation showing outside of enclosures, live parts accessible under the sink, blanks missing in the board, a busbar that had been bent to fit a different brand MCB and lovely charred connection between the neutral bar and the main switch.

These sorts of findings are a regular occurence.

Now I know full well that my personal experience alone cannot be taken as any hard evidence to rebut yours. When you start listening to the personal experiences of thousands of highly qualified and experienced sparks up and down the country however, and they are all saying the same thing, this does start to suggest that your personal experience may not be as indicative of the standards displayed by todays 'electricians' as you think.

My challenge to you; next time you investigate a fire caused by faulty wiring, look closer at who carried it out. I will bet a significant amount of money that they do not hold a core qualification in electrical installation or maintenance and instead, hold nothing more than a worthless piece of paper with 'Domestic Installer' plastered in bold at the top, followed by, 'Part P', '17th Edition', 'PAT testing' and '2392' in italics below.

You can throw as many figures as you like at us in an effort to show that Part P works. We in turn however can throw ten times as many back at you to prove that it doesn't!

 

[ipf]

A few really good explanations of the true situation, as WE know it. However, will it be enough for the fireman to attempt, even, to remove the blinkers and actually get real? Figures talk loud, it seems.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Interesting thread and 117 posts on max Zs values not given on NIC software lol.
just as long as we dont go off topic fella's!

 

[Anthony S]

A few really good explanations of the true situation, as WE know it. However, will it be enough for the fireman to attempt, even, to remove the blinkers and actually get real? Figures talk loud, it seems.

Defending Part P because he need's it trade imo I may be wrong but doubt it. Maybe he's done the short courses if he his a firefighter as well as carrying out Electrical work under the Domestic Installer Badge ?