Mcb or Rcd Must be all from the same manufacturer

[Michaelp]

Sometimes a panel have many types and names of mcb and rcd.Like hager,abb,legrand etc.

Is this true, That all mcb and rcd on a panel must be from the same manufacturer? If yes then why is that?

 

[mhar]

Same issue with fitting replacement LED's in GU10 downlightters. I rang the manufacturers of one brand as the instructions stated that only halogen bulbs were to be used. The reason given for that requirement was that they have only been tested (in order to receive the bs compliance certification) with halogens but then added that 'personally I (he) wouldn't worry'!

 

[Marvo]

I can't help thinking that there's no line being drawn here between manufacturers instructions and manufacturers recommendations. Surely common sense would dictate that GU10 halogen lamps can be safely replaced by GU10 LED equivalents without checking with the manufacturers.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Sometimes a panel have many types and names of mcb and rcd.Like hager,abb,legrand etc.

Is this true, That all mcb and rcd on a panel must be from the same manufacturer? If yes then why is that?

There are a number of different types of Distribution Boards.
One type, refered to as a Consumer Unit is type tested, with a selection of devices fitted. It is then rated in it's entirety at 16.5kA, even though the devices fitted may only be rated individually at 3kA, 6kA, 10kA etc.
These types are only rated at 16.5kA if the devices fitted are those used in the type testing. In effect only those of the same manufacturer as manufactured the CU.
Other DBs, such as are often used in industrial and commercial installations, are not type tested, these are not rated at 16.5kA, so there is no restriction against using devices manufactured by someone other than the manufacturer of the DB.

 

[IQ Electrical]

There are a number of different types of Distribution Boards.
One type, refered to as a Consumer Unit is type tested, with a selection of devices fitted. It is then rated in it's entirety at 16.5kA, even though the devices fitted may only be rated individually at 3kA, 6kA, 10kA etc.
These types are only rated at 16.5kA if the devices fitted are those used in the type testing. In effect only those of the same manufacturer as manufactured the CU.
Other DBs, such as are often used in industrial and commercial installations, are not type tested, these are not rated at 16.5kA, so there is no restriction against using devices manufactured by someone other than the manufacturer of the DB.

You'll get a different answer from the manufacturer and I can see the point really:

Take an MCB to BS EN60898, the standard governs a tight specification on curves, ratings etc but the final connection and shape of the device is, within reason, the manufacturers choice, based on the specification of their own enclosure/unit.

Does anyone really think that if another manufacturers device with a 'close match' was fitted to this enclosure/unit, the original manufacturer would still be liable for any subsequent fault/connection problem?

We've all seen it done before but I guarantee that if the unthinkable happened, you'd be in court explaining this to the manufacturers expert witness.

 

[mhar]

Marvo, I only checked because the specification was in bold letters. Common sense said that it would be ok but, for the sake of a phone call, I thought it best to check and to discover why. The uk is a litigious society nowadays.

 

[oldtimer]

I got a call out to a job via a letting agent the DB was a Hager type with cartridge fuse modules in them and yep it was our old freind the GU10 had popped and decided to take the 5 amp fuse with it so I sourced a spare at B&Q at a cost of £3 per fuse (Ibought and left a spare) Letting agent said this is the 3rd time this has happened and the landlord is not pleased I said it is just the type of fuse ie a cartridge if it was a MCB or rewirable protection you would be ok but as the module looks like a MCB I will contact Hager to enquire if I can swap them out with MCBs ie cheaper in the long run and the reply from Hager was you cannot swap them over so what chance has anybody got if even a company like Hager cannot make their cartridge modules the same template as an MCB

 

[Marvo]

One type, refered to as a Consumer Unit is type tested, with a selection of devices fitted. It is then rated in it's entirety at 16.5kA, even though the devices fitted may only be rated individually at 3kA, 6kA, 10kA etc.

Thanks for the explanation, it makesa bit more sense to me now, I didn't realise that the 16.5kA rating of a CU wasn't achieved by using all individual components of 16.5kA rating.

The next question I have is the obvious one, how can any type of distribution network have a higher overall kA rating than the lowest kA rating of any component used in it?

 

[Richard Burns]

Even if the low kA rating device fails badly the total enclosure is enough to ensure that there is no external danger up to the 16.5kA rating.

 

[RWJ]

There's an article on the last page of the current Switched on (Issue 23) from the ESC discussing this very subject.


http://www.beama.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/F24BF81E-39AC-41C6-9557E79834520533

http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/public/switched_on/Switched-On-Issue-23.pdf

 

[Engineer54]

There's an article on the last page of the current Switched on (Issue 23) from the ESC discussing this very subject.


http://www.beama.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/F24BF81E-39AC-41C6-9557E79834520533

http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/public/switched_on/Switched-On-Issue-23.pdf

See who wrote this article?? The very people that this Sudo Reg serves best. Of course these manufacturers don't want you to have a choice, it doesn't serve there business interests does it!! If they were telling the whole truth here, they would be testing a mixture of protection devices by other manufacturers in there CU's that meet the same KA ratings etc along with all the requirements of the relevant BS standards.... And then reporting just how badly everything turns out!! ...But they don't do they?? Instead they say, ...maybe, could, possibly, may not, and all the other words and phases that legally keep them out of hot water.

 

[Marvo]

I'd also be happier to see an MCB being tested when it's surrounded with other MCB's that are under varying load. That test setup looks iffy to me.

 

[oldtimer]

Funny how light bulbs and plug tops fit any makes but MCB a well you will just have to use ours

 

[CrazyScozzese]

The BS should include provisions that state they housings can dissipate heat generate by a device meeting BS EN xxxxxx.

The BS for the device should say the device does not produce more heat than xzy, which is what a BS EN xxxxxx housing can dissipate.

Easy. Temp curves, number of devices, size of CU. Of course it is, what a scam.

Pass the buck, liability, down the line to the guy at the bleeding edge, who has to take responsibility and/or tell the client that their 10 year old CU is obsolete cos they need a £3 MCB that is no longer available.

Do you have to put a Philips lamp in a Philips luminaire?

 

[Engineer54]

Plus the fact that one manufacturer can make the same but re-badged Protective devices for other manufacturers on exactly the same machines... No-ones going to convince me that they change internal components with re-badged units, can you imagine how much that would actually cost, in down time and re-jigging etc?? No it's just another Scam that your all supposed to just swallow with a smile!!!