Mega huge panic on!!

[SPARK2B]

RIGHT!!

a situation has come up at college,....me and my class are all but finished 2365 C&G L2, and coming back to do L3 in september, ...sounds about right...all gravy!

but no, last night our theory teacher came in to practical class and declared to us all that we wont be doing level 3 city and guilds, but the EAL version of it ??.....because its our best route ??

i have just looked over the course online, due to launch july this year, and online (on the EAL website) and other places, it seems to be directed at school leavers with GCSE and nothing else ?....so what was the point of the last 2 years ? and how can that be a better route ??

see link below...

Coming soon: New Level 3 qualification in Electrical Installation

this is the piece of paper he was handing out, but wanted back, so i got a snap of it,....what the hell is going on,...anyone on here who is or was involved in teaching or training, can you let me know your views on this over the city and guilds level 3....as im not happy just having this dumped on us, he kept saying it was better this route, but i cant see how ??

any and all help appreciated,....we feel once again, sh*t on from a great height!!

SPARK2B

 

[Darkwood]

I wonder if this is better moved to the main forum for more input... I'm out of touch myself with all the various levels and acheivements to give constructive comment but I too (if the C&G certicate/diploma was been subtituted by a yet hardly recognisable replacement) would be asking some very hard questions... when you signed up to the course you were told what was to be expected and the qualification that you would receive ...then over half way through they have changed the contract is not on, unless this holds the same value and you are still getting your C&G level 3....

 

[Leesparkykent]

Most JTL apprenticeships are now EAL qualifications. Some of the major players like BAE systems plc also send their apprentices down the EAL route as well. Although city and guilds are the most recognised I wouldn't panic to much as it's still a recognised qualification and also the JIB recognise EAL qualifications.

 

[Darkwood]

Most JTL apprenticeships are now EAL qualifications. Some of the major players like BAE systems plc also send their apprentices down the EAL route as well. Although city and guilds are the most recognised I wouldn't panic to much as it's still a recognised qualification and also the JIB recognise EAL qualifications.

Having said that if it is recognised by a few groups as mentioned what about all those that don't recognise it, surely if he's signed up for a C&G course that is recognised by everyone why would you consider a EAL to be equal when you limit your appeal to job market to only those who recognise it?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Having said that if it is recognised by a few groups as mentioned what about all those that don't recognise it, surely if he's signed up for a C&G course that is recognised by everyone why would you consider a EAL to be equal when you limit your appeal to job market to only those who recognise it?

The EAL qualifications are equally recognised as the same as city and guilds qualifications by all the scams, jib, ECA, etc. I understand that at present the EAL qualifications may not be equally recognised by employers but this will change over the next few years as more and more apprentices qualify (especially now JTL will/are using EAL qualifications over city&guilds).

 

[Darkwood]

Sounds like another cloak and dagger attempt to dumb down the system by lowering the bar for students to play the game of life with peoples safety otherwise why change the system in the first place...C&G has been accepted for decades.

 

[SPARK2B]

............i wonder if they need hairdressers in my town ......

 

[Darkwood]

............i wonder if they need hairdressers in my town ......

Just ask the questions Spark2B ... my views are only that 'my views' as I said earlier - I'm out of touch with all the new qualification levels etc so don't read into it too deeply.

 

[Paul.M]

Spark2b, as above dont panic about it just yet. It is a qualification to the same standards as C&G's.

I posted up months ago in the staff room that this issue would pop up on the forum, you are the first to bring any evidence to the table so to say. Let me make a few phone calls in the next couple of days with the people I know within the teaching trade and I'll get back to you with a bit more clarity than what we have now.

ps I dont like their wording of the repetitive "Domestic installer.... self employed etc etc". Is that hand out an information page or a sales package???? Just hang fire, I'll get back to you with impartial information. It may take a few days, bare with me.

 

[SPARK2B]

Spark2b, as above dont panic about it just yet. It is a qualification to the same standards as C&G's.

I posted up months ago in the staff room that this issue would pop up on the forum, you are the first to bring any evidence to the table so to say. Let me make a few phone calls in the next couple of days with the people I know within the teaching trade and I'll get back to you with a bit more clarity than what we have now.

ps I dont like their wording of the repetitive "Domestic installer.... self employed etc etc". Is that hand out an information page or a sales package???? Just hang fire, I'll get back to you with impartial information. It may take a few days, bare with me.

...............and thats why you sir,....rock!!!!


yer the tutor keeps harping on about..."best route for self employed etc etc"......i dont wana be self employed for years and years yet, iv only just got my fIrst job in the trade and want to keep it!!.....

see what he says tuesday at college,....thanks for any and all input!!

SPARK2B

 

[Darkwood]

Keep us informed please .... this would be valuable info for the forum, I'm a little concerned as to the tutor saying its the best route for the self employed and as you say, what about if self employment isn't your aim.

I could see the new standards eventually becoming the norm' and accepted by all but will the period of transition which seems to be occuring now where you may find yourself limited by the EAL qualification.

The question I would put to the tutor as its in his interest to defend what the college is doing is, you could say to them - ' My potential employer, requires a C&G and after speaking with them they do not recognise the EAL qualification, I took this course with you because a complete C & G was what I signed up for ' .... see what the reply is?

I wonder if this case is legally defendable and I would be looking at the very wording of all paperwork that you recieved and/or signed when you took the course.

Again don't get me wrong, this EAL may hold equal value but its introduction part way through someones college course ring alarm bells to me.

 

[rolyberkin]

I am a C&G assessor and trainer in other fields, my personal view is that it is not good practice to mix and match qualifications. I may be biased but if you have to explain that a qualification is equal to City & Guilds, it is not yet sufficiently established (in the public eye) as a general qualification.
If you work for BAE systems or another multinational then this qualification may be fine for their own training department as most people stay there and they are only worried about training for their core business, not what you personally may want to do in the future. It may/will not be viewed as an equal qualification by other employers or the general public.
We used to train equivalent qualifications in a number of areas and then had to re train staff when the qualifications became obsolete. I liken these equivalents to the VW Golf advert, if you want a Golf buy a Golf!
To change students part way through a scheme is a poor decision and will no doubt be driven by college based financial considerations not the best interests of the students. I would consider changing college if you can or ask them to allow you to complete your 2365 L3. Also as a student invite the views of C&G on a part completed scheme swap which may force the colleges hand! There are a lot of cross over areas in the L 2 & L3 2365 which you may find yourself completing again!

 

[SPARK2B]

I am a C&G assessor and trainer in other fields, my personal view is that it is not good practice to mix and match qualifications. I may be biased but if you have to explain that a qualification is equal to City & Guilds, it is not yet sufficiently established (in the public eye) as a general qualification.
If you work for BAE systems or another multinational then this qualification may be fine for their own training department as most people stay there and they are only worried about training for their core business, not what you personally may want to do in the future. It may/will not be viewed as an equal qualification by other employers or the general public.
We used to train equivalent qualifications in a number of areas and then had to re train staff when the qualifications became obsolete. I liken these equivalents to the VW Golf advert, if you want a Golf buy a Golf!
To change students part way through a scheme is a poor decision and will no doubt be driven by college based financial considerations not the best interests of the students. I would consider changing college if you can or ask them to allow you to complete your 2365 L3. Also as a student invite the views of C&G on a part completed scheme swap which may force the colleges hand! There are a lot of cross over areas in the L 2 & L3 2365 which you may find yourself completing again!

******many thanks all for input and comments****

RIGHT!

WELL,...i have already passed your above quote to two of my classmates, and its not going to happen, ...i do not want to change, nor do they, i have been given a job with the local housing authority as a trainee electrician, on the conditions that i go to college and get the level 3 i told them i was going to get!!....CITY AND GUILDS!!

...W have been me about soooo much by this college, i cant wait for level 3 to be over, if there was anywhere else i could attend it, i would for sure!!

this is going to kick off on tuesday, i can see it, but im not going to put up with it, the teacher held us hostage for months saying he may not even run a level three, i told him it wasnt really his personal choice, they (in my and the rest of the students eyes) offerd us level 2 and so were obliged to offer level three, and i mentioned that maybe the legal route was going to be the way to go ?


not long after, boom level 3 is offered,...and now this mess with EAL!!!

no no nooo!

dont need this hassle with final exam coming, but hey ho!!

he who fights hardest!!

SPARK2B

 

[SPARK2B]

Keep us informed please .... this would be valuable info for the forum, I'm a little concerned as to the tutor saying its the best route for the self employed and as you say, what about if self employment isn't your aim.

I could see the new standards eventually becoming the norm' and accepted by all but will the period of transition which seems to be occuring now where you may find yourself limited by the EAL qualification.

The question I would put to the tutor as its in his interest to defend what the college is doing is, you could say to them - ' My potential employer, requires a C&G and after speaking with them they do not recognise the EAL qualification, I took this course with you because a complete C & G was what I signed up for ' .... see what the reply is?

I wonder if this case is legally defendable and I would be looking at the very wording of all paperwork that you recieved and/or signed when you took the course.

Again don't get me wrong, this EAL may hold equal value but its introduction part way through someones college course ring alarm bells to me.

i will keep all informed, my above post says it all,soo angry!

thaks for your input

SPARK2B

 

[Darkwood]

Maybe the college has been dropped from C&G for some reason or other as a recognised training college ... this would explain alot especially the discussions on only offering level 2 at short notice then suddenly coming up with the EAL alternative... something just doesn't sound right here, it doesn't make sense for a college to change the base of your course 2/3rds through - its ringing big alarms bells ...well in my opinion anyway.

Me wonders if the college is in financial difficulties and scraping for a way out.

I would speak direct to C&G and see if you can dig up any info on why your college has dropped the C&G option.