Metal Halide Lamp failure

[ray-bentos]

Hello
I attended a customers property today to check on a fault with some latern courtyard lamps. There are 4 lamps and the centre 2 are not working. The customer had replaced the bulbs himself but there was no joy.

As a first port of call I swapped the 2 working bulbs from the outer fittings with the unworking bulbs to rule out bulb failure. Once swapped the bulbs are fine with the outer two fittings but still no light on the centre 2.

I used a lightmate on the centre fitting and voltage is present at 230v. The customer was not present in the property at the time so I could only access the yard however there is no sign of any ballast anywhere near the lamp. The lanterns are attached to a high wall (perhaps 20ft) with pillars which the lights sit on. The flex from the fitting simply disappers down inside the pillar. I have done work at his property before and there is a room containing all the consumer units, AV gear and switchgear for the property but I cannot for the life in me remember seeing any ballasts for sodium/halide lamps in there, just armoured cable for the courtyard lighting exiting the room underground.

I didn't have my multimeter with me so the only test I could run was that voltage was present and even to check the fitting was tight used a normal BC energy saver which lit in all fittings.

What should my next course of action be? I'm not going to lie I don't have a huge wealth of experience with arc lighting. The customer had reported that the RCBO supplying the courtyard lighting (C6 RCBO) had tripped a couple of times prior to him changing these 2 bulbs after which there has been no more tripping.

Does this sound like the ballast itself is at fault? I think I already know the answer to this but would you think the original fitter have been stupid enough to encase the ballast within the pillar or even under the driveway for some reason?
The bulbs in question are these http://www.venturelightingeurope.com/products/whitelux-plus-lamps/13742.html which appear to be a direct swap for HPS lamps using the original ballast

 

[plugsandsparks]

Could also be an igniter somewhere, one things for sure, they wont work without. It must be somewhere

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Hello
I attended a customers property today to check on a fault with some latern courtyard lamps. There are 4 lamps and the centre 2 are not working. The customer had replaced the bulbs himself but there was no joy.

As a first port of call I swapped the 2 working bulbs from the outer fittings with the unworking bulbs to rule out bulb failure. Once swapped the bulbs are fine with the outer two fittings but still no light on the centre 2.

I used a lightmate on the centre fitting and voltage is present at 230v. The customer was not present in the property at the time so I could only access the yard however there is no sign of any ballast anywhere near the lamp. The lanterns are attached to a high wall (perhaps 20ft) with pillars which the lights sit on. The flex from the fitting simply disappers down inside the pillar. I have done work at his property before and there is a room containing all the consumer units, AV gear and switchgear for the property but I cannot for the life in me remember seeing any ballasts for sodium/halide lamps in there, just armoured cable for the courtyard lighting exiting the room underground.

I didn't have my multimeter with me so the only test I could run was that voltage was present and even to check the fitting was tight used a normal BC energy saver which lit in all fittings.

What should my next course of action be? I'm not going to lie I don't have a huge wealth of experience with arc lighting. The customer had reported that the RCBO supplying the courtyard lighting (C6 RCBO) had tripped a couple of times prior to him changing these 2 bulbs after which there has been no more tripping.

Does this sound like the ballast itself is at fault? I think I already know the answer to this but would you think the original fitter have been stupid enough to encase the ballast within the pillar or even under the driveway for some reason?
The bulbs in question are these Whitelux Plus Lamps - 13742 which appear to be a direct swap for HPS lamps using the original ballast

Can't you open up the pillar to check? First course of action methinks. And yes, I am Shakespeare.

 

[ray-bentos]

Opening the pillar is going to be a pain in the a**e but if it has to be done then it has to be done..... Whats the maximum distance from the lamp that the ballast/ignitor should be?

 

[socket2me]

Got to be an access panel at the bottom of the pillar??

 

[ray-bentos]

Got to be an access panel at the bottom of the pillar??

You would have thought so but no, its just a straight up piece of the wall, perhaps 15ft of sandstone block with a patio flag in top

 

[VoltzElectrical]

can't advise further without pictures of the fitting and what it's fitted to.

sorry.

 

[ian.settle1]

Could also be an igniter somewhere, one things for sure, they wont work without. It must be somewhere

Yes they will as the lamp could have an internal ignitor

 

[ray-bentos]

I'll try and get some pictures when I go back to the property but to be fair without actually 'breaking into anything' its going to be hard to see anything from the pictures. The light fittings are just lanterns over a bayonet cap fitment in the middle (all heavy duty external stuff). There is an adaptor to ES screw fitment with the bulbs in. The only 'electrical' connections in the lamp are 1mm flexible cable leaving the bulb fitting and going under the 'flag' at the top of the stone pillar.

The distance from the house is maybe 10M, even if the ballast was sited in the room with all switchgear would it work remotely like this? As stated before my experience with arc lighting is just fitting simple spotlights not using remote ballasts like this.

Would there be a test I could conduct at the fitting to confirm that indeed a ballast (or ignitor) was at fault before I have to start removing blocks or otherwise hunting for these?

 

[itselectric]

Are you sure the ballast and igniter are not concealed behind the silver reflector?
I am almost certain these lamps require an external igniter.

 

[Brightspark2]

Are you sure the ballast and igniter are not concealed behind the silver reflector?
I am almost certain these lamps require an external igniter.

Yep, the type of fitting I think your describing usually have the control gear behind the reflector.

Take the lamp out, unscrew the reflector and have a look...

 

[ray-bentos]

There is no reflector, the lamp looks like this:

The 'fitting' in the middle for the bulb is EXACTLY as shown in that picture and the only connection under the fitting is 1mm flexible cable that leads down into the pillar/wall to which it is fitted. There is nothing ballast or ignitor related within the lamp itself.

 

[Barry White]

Has it a bc to es40 adapter fitted and a self ballasted lamp ? if so the lamps you are fitting wont work.

see PREMIUM QUALITY SELF BALLASTED 250W METAL HALIDE LAMP E40 5000K TUBULAR FITTING | eBay

the above is just an example there are loads more types available and connect directly to 220v mains (dont need a ballast)

 

[ray-bentos]

Has it a bc to es40 adapter fitted and a self ballasted lamp ? if so the lamps you are fitting wont work.

see PREMIUM QUALITY SELF BALLASTED 250W METAL HALIDE LAMP E40 5000K TUBULAR FITTING | eBay

the above is just an example there are loads more types available and connect directly to 220v mains (dont need a ballast)

The customer refitted these new bulbs and for some reason described them as 'wrong' although couldn't tell me why?

The adaptors are BC - E27

There are 4 lamps and this problem is only affecting the inner 2, they are all the same although perhaps the outer two are ballasted and the inner two are not?? Swapping bulbs from the inner to the outer makes no odds, it's still the two outer lamps which remain lit. Strangely enough an energy saving CFL BC bulb works in all 4 lamps

 

[ian.settle1]

The customer refitted these new bulbs and for some reason described them as 'wrong' although couldn't tell me why?

The adaptors are BC - E27

There are 4 lamps and this problem is only affecting the inner 2, they are all the same although perhaps the outer two are ballasted and the inner two are not?? Swapping bulbs from the inner to the outer makes no odds, it's still the two outer lamps which remain lit. Strangely enough an energy saving CFL BC bulb works in all 4 lamps

That's because it's a normal bloody lampholder.