mild tingling in certain scenarios

[Martin Traynor]

Maybe I can pick the brains of some of you who actually understand electrical stuff - this is over my head and I am keen to identify the problem asap.

I initially thought I'd identified a problem with my guitar amp. Last night, when plugged in and playing through the amp connected to the mains, i picked up my iphone 5s, which was charging via usb plugged into my laptop, and the laptop itself is plugged into another mains outlet on the other side of the room. When picking up the charging phone with my right hand, which is aluminium, i noticed a non-painful but unmistakeable electrical tingling, NOT in my phone hand, but in my left hand on the guitar strings.

So I assumed it was the guitar side, went away and read a load of stuff about faulty guitar amps and became a bit paranoid that I need a new amp or at least a professional service for the existing one. I decided not to play connected to the amp again until the amp had been checked, as well as the mains outlets where this happened.

Fast forward to today, and I started to wonder if something else in the chain was at fault - when i remembered macbook pros are notorious for giving a mild electric sensation when plugged into the mains, and the user touches the metal casing while their person is grounded in some way.

I didn't think a phone charging via usb would be capable of doing anything similar - but according to various stories on the internet iphone 5s owners have reported similar mild shocks and/or tingling from their phone when connected and charging.

So, this time while holding my charging phone in my left hand (again connected via usb to my laptop, laptop itself plugged in to the mains, albeit a different outlet downstairs this time) I cautiously put the back of my hand against the radiator (ground as far as i understand) to see if the pattern repeated. I am fairly certain I felt the same kind of tingling building on the back of the radiator hand (equivalent of guitar hand last night), so immediately pulled my hand away to err on side of caution.

I then remembered my laptop charger has a mainland euro style plug (i think type e or type f) which i have plugged into a british three pin adaptor, which as far as I can tell does not sync up with the 'ground' or earth pin on the plug.

Could that be the culprit, or some combination, or could it be the house mains?

This is a bit of a splurge so apologies for that, like I say I am no electrician and might have everything back to front here - please forgive me if I am talking absolute rubbish but hopefully some of you will have some logical advice on how to eliminate the parts of the chain.

 

[telectrix]

the only thing you can do is to have an electrician check and test the fixed wiring installation as a starter.

 

[Martin Traynor]

Thanks - sorry what does 'fixed wiring installation' mean exactly? Is that what the house mains supply circuit is referred to as? My terminology is not good.

 

[UKMeterman]

Also get a proper plug on your laptop, this may well be the cause of the issue.

 

[Devonchris]

You hadn't been trying to play a Johnny Kid and the Pirates number had you? That can give you shivers down the backbone.

 

[Martin Traynor]

You hadn't been trying to play a Johnny Kid and the Pirates number had you? That can give you shivers down the backbone.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

 

[static zap]

Your phone charger is a likely tingle suspect !
(plenty fire off volt stick)..
Some imports are so NAF

 

[l4urence]

Apple have details about this on their site (can try and find a link if needed). From what I remember it’s more noticeable using a charger (usb plug) with a plastic earth pin (they call it ground). Most of Apples (charger plug earth pins) are metal and connect to the case. You wouldn’t notice this on a phone / PC with a plastic case. Maybe why Apple are moving it all to glass now?

 

[kingeri]

Nothing wrong with a mild tingling now and then.

 

[static zap]

Also get a proper plug on your laptop, this may well be the cause of the issue.

Find some-one with a meter to test for "Earth Continuity" on your laptop charger ...and consider a
" Plug upgrade " ..If there is an earth
..May not be the case if " Double Insulated "
..that has an international symbol for it
---
(Does tingling vanish with No Phone charger ?)

 

[l4urence]

Further to my earlier post - I found information from Apple. This is linked primarily to the charger having a metal earth pin rather than the plastic ones. The Apple charger DO have a metal earth pin - so situation is worse (but not dangerous) with a plastic one, depending on who you trust to design the SELV in the charger.

There is measurable AC voltage across the external metal parts when an iPad charges. The measured voltage is within the SELV (Separated Extra-Low Voltage) limit, which means that the iPad is safe to touch. Additionally, the touch current is within the safety limit according to UL/IEC 60950 (Safety of Information Technology Equipment).

This is expected behavior and not dangerous. It is within the set guidelines.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

I then remembered my laptop charger has a mainland euro style plug (i think type e or type f) which i have plugged into a british three pin adaptor, which as far as I can tell does not sync up with the 'ground' or earth pin on the plug.

Get the right earthed adapter then.

Earthed Schuko to UK Adapter Plug, Black - from LINDY UK - https://www.lindy.co.uk/power-c8/power-accessories-c341/earthed-schuko-to-uk-adapter-plug-black-p2972/s3114?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=earthed-schuko-to-uk-adapter-plug-black&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjMG31P-32AIVzpztCh099gKSEAQYAiABEgL5n_D_BwE

or this

White 13A UK Visitors Travel Adaptor Converting European Schuko to UK 13A Plug | eBay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/232090379733?chn=ps&adgroupid=45816795725&rlsatarget=pla-380356951429&abcId=1128936&adtype=pla&merchantid=7434004&poi=&googleloc=9044970&device=c&campaignid=856936463&crdt=0

 

[l4urence]

I can’t get the eBay link to work but the Lindy site seems to address the issue and shows the correct BS, which is what you need. This is a common problem with charging SELV (Separated Extra Low Voltage), as Apple report the touch voltage is “within acceptable guidelines”. May explain why Apple adapters are more expensive, they do have metal earth pins. However, note the SELV charging caveat! Adapters are generally cheap and nasty and anything can be plugged into them. If they don’t connect the earth (by using plastic) - it’s the same as disconnecting it and negating any additional protection your fixed wiring (the wiring in the dwelling) provides. I would change the plug but when you cannot, the Lindy looks the ticket.

 

[dmxtothemax]

Really there are many possibilities !
This is why it is best to contact an electrician
He can do the tests and find out for sure !

 

[pirate]

Hmmm...just came across this thread...OP, you say in your first post that your right hand, which is aluminium...
I wonder if that is the problem?
(Sorry, just a bit at a loose end today...)
Many adapters and chargers are just rubbish, and a cheap one will always be suspect. Amazon and EBay sell hundreds of them, and my friend who is a forensic analyst tells me that these cheapos are the primary cause of domestic fires. We've all read about the bogus extension leads, and how dangerous they can be. I recently received some kit from a well-known UK supplier which was for demo purposes. The kit itself was fine, but it required a "kettle" lead to plug it into the mains, which they kindly supplied with the kit...it had a partially sleeved earth pin.
This from a reputable supplier, whose "buyer" probably went online to source a supply of leads as cheaply as possible, but they should never have shipped such stuff, imo.