Minor works - Like for like

[Blaspark]

If a like for like change is done but it's not in compliance with the new regs is a risk assessment always required?

Also where does the "like for like" terminology come from?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Yes I did just inform you.
There is one instance of the term in Approved Document Part P.
Yes you need to attach a documented Risk Assessment to the MEIWC if you are installing a socket-outlet without RCD protection.
If you are not installing a socket-outlet, then it’s not applicable.

 

[westward10]

A risk assessment is for departures from BS7671, see Regulations 120.3, 133.1.3 and 133.5 for such instances where this may be applicable. The risk assessment must prove that any departures do not affect the safety of the installation and persons using the installation and only apply to alterations and extensions to the circuit.

 

[Blaspark]

A risk assessment is for departures from BS7671, see Regulations 120.3, 133.1.3 and 133.5 for such instances where this may be applicable. The risk assessment must prove that any departures do not affect the safety of the installation and persons using the installation and only apply to alterations and extensions to the circuit.

Thanks

 

[Wilko]

I believe we are ok to maintain an installation without triggering a requirement to upgrade to current regulations or carry out risk assessment. Change a lamp, replace a broken outlet, replace a broken MCB etc.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Regulation 411.3.3 is the only instance where there is a requirement for a documented Risk Assessment in BS7671.
There are other Regulations where a Risk Assessment is required, but there is no requirement for the Risk Assessment to be documented in those instances.

 

[westward10]

Regulation 411.3.3 is the only instance where there is a requirement for a documented Risk Assessment in BS7671.
There are other Regulations where a Risk Assessment is required, but there is no requirement for the Risk Assessment to be documented in those instances.

That is not correct. If you refer to the model Minor Works Certificate in BS7671 it clearly refers to the Regulations I have noted in #17 and this can cover a multitude of departures.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

That is not correct. If you refer to the model Minor Works Certificate in BS7671 it clearly refers to the Regulations I have noted in #17 and this can cover a multitude of departures.

I’m afraid it is correct.
None of the Regulations you quoted require a documented Risk Assessment.

 

[Blaspark]

I’m afraid it is correct.
None of the Regulations you quoted require a documented Risk Assessment.

I'm so glad you guys are going to argue amongst yourselves so I can relax with my coffee.
Let me know when the dust settles

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Am i the only one who minor works everything?
If i change a cracked lightswitch like for like i carry out a full range of tests and certify it.

Reasons are habit, and also do alot of work in social housing so always wanting to cover my back. Photo of every job also saved in the computer job file.

 

[Pete999]

threasd going round in circles. where's buzz when youneed him?

Finding out how to spell risk assessment, sorry Buzz honest

 

[Blaspark]

Am i the only one who minor works everything?
If i change a cracked lightswitch like for like i carry out a full range of tests and certify it.

Reasons are habit, and also do alot of work in social housing so always wanting to cover my back. Photo of every job also saved in the computer job file.

I see no reason not to do that and lots of reasons to do so. If you read the notes in appendix 6 for person producing the certificate it's pretty clear you could but they use the term "may".
They say intended to be used for alterations so I think that eliminates the "may" part in the next line if you are doing like for like change. Still an alteration though not a design change.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

An alteration would be if you changed something from the original design.
For instance, installing down lights in a room instead of a pendant.
An addition would be if you were to add something to the original design.
For instance, installing down lights in a room whilst leaving the pendant in place.
Replacing existing equipment because of damage or deterioration, would be maintenance.

 

[Pete999]

IGNORE PLEASE having some difficulties posting the right info

 

[Blaspark]

An alteration would be if you changed something from the original design.
For instance, installing down lights in a room instead of a pendant.
An addition would be if you were to add something to the original design.
For instance, installing down lights in a room whilst leaving the pendant in place.
Replacing existing equipment because of damage or deterioration, would be maintenance.

Fair enough you can do that.
This article sums up my opinion better than I could..
Majoring in the Minor Works Certificate - https://professional-electrician.com/technical/majoring-minor-works-certificate-napit/

 

[Blissof89]

I have a little confusion over MWC's.

Currently we are adding a lot of smoke detectors to rental properties due to the change in the law around HMO licenses. Often its just upgrading from a D LD1 to a D LD2 system type. On smaller properties its just taking permanent feed off a local lighting fixture and putting a smoke detector in the living area, which is usually being used as a bedroom. And then wiring to smoke detectors in all the bedrooms upstairs from the exsisting one on landing via loft.

When completing MWC's for this above work its is necessary to perform R1+R2 for every fixture on the lighting circuit? A lot of these places have 1 lighting circuit feeding both floors so performing R1+R2 at every point takes a while and all I'm doing is adding 1 smoke detector. Would it be acceptable to confirm R1+R2 at my new smoke detector and the fixture immediately after, as I have not done anything that will affect the circuit beyond this.

Edit: A word