Multi installs at one site

Gavin A · Jun 10, 2012

IMO it depends if you can tell for certain if each MPAN is coming from the same single phase supply, or each MPAN is a different phase from a 3 phase supply.

If it's definitely the latter, then I would view it as a straight G83/1 stage 1 installation up to 16amps per phase, but if you're not sure or can't tell, then you need to submit a stage 2 application because there's a chance that you might end up installing 11kW on to a single phase.

If you do need to submit the application though you could still install 1 before the deadline, which would get paid at the <4kW rate, then install the other 2 after the deadline, which would then probably be paid under the 4-10kW rate (you'd need to limit the total for the 2nd 2 installs to 6kW, not worth going over 10kW for that extra kW really).

Unless each barn had a separate address or something, in which case you might be able to get the 4kW rate for all of them, but it seems unlikely.

Coleman · Jun 10, 2012

Thankyou to everyone for all your good advise!
The trouble is in this industry there seems to be a lot of grey areas in these situations
These barns or dwellings have seperate addresses and meters and have single phases supplying each place
Ive contacted the DNO and they said it will be stage 2 and we have to prenotify them
The fit payments will be decided by the energy companies which is the responsibility of the customer

Gavin A · Jun 11, 2012

yeah, we just had one very similar to this, but both meters were in the same spot, and it was obvious each meter was fed from a separate phase on a 2 phase cable (3rd phase in the incoming cable was taped off).

This is probably the case here, but unless you can tell for certain then you need to apply for permission.

Morgan keith · Jun 12, 2012

We did a similar job mid last year and each of the 3 systems received 43p/kWh. We got written confirmation of this from the supplier first (SSE) and got DNO confirmation as all 3 meters came off the same phase. Apparently some suppliers will class it as a '12kW' install so you would get a lower rate. But in that case could be worth switching suppliers to get the max tariff

Earthstore · Jun 12, 2012

Morgan keith said:
We did a similar job mid last year and each of the 3 systems received 43p/kWh. We got written confirmation of this from the supplier first (SSE) and got DNO confirmation as all 3 meters came off the same phase. Apparently some suppliers will class it as a '12kW' install so you would get a lower rate. But in that case could be worth switching suppliers to get the max tariff

Were they all for the same person?

Morgan keith · Jun 17, 2012

Yeah all for the same person on the same property and all the panels went on the same roof. Just ran underground cables to the other 2 meters that had different MPAN's. Ran it all past the DNO first and they said it was all fine

sedgy34 · Jun 17, 2012

Morgan keith said:
Yeah all for the same person on the same property and all the panels went on the same roof. Just ran underground cables to the other 2 meters that had different MPAN's. Ran it all past the DNO first and they said it was all fine

this has confirmed my thoughts, i was on this understanding as 3 different mpan numbers.you get normal tariff sometimes you take other posts at face value and you fiind they are incorrect.

Gavin A · Jun 17, 2012

Morgan keith said:
We did a similar job mid last year and each of the 3 systems received 43p/kWh. We got written confirmation of this from the supplier first (SSE) and got DNO confirmation as all 3 meters came off the same phase. Apparently some suppliers will class it as a '12kW' install so you would get a lower rate. But in that case could be worth switching suppliers to get the max tariff

when was this exactly?

I think Ofgem updated their guidance on this at some point towards the end of last year, so this may well not help someone trying to do the same thing now.

Gavin A · Jun 17, 2012

Here's Ofgem's latest guidance on the definition of a site, which makes it clear that it's not just about the MPAN numbers, and anything at the same postal address or OS refence is likely to be classed as being part of the same site.

2.4. "Site" is defined as:"the premises to which are attached one or more accredited FIT installations or eligible installations in close geographical proximity to each other, to be determined
as required by the Authority by reference to:

The relevant Meter Point Administration Number (MPAN) for electricity supply
Street address
OS grid reference

and any other factors which the authority at its discretion views as relevant."

2.5. In addition to the requirements set out in the definition of "site", the
other factors that we will also assess the installation against include the practice
developed under the RO Order and our definition of "generating station"
10

2.6. A domestic or non domestic postal address at which an installation (or several installations of the same technology) is located would normally be viewed as a single site, but not in every case. Applications are assessed on a case-by-case basis taking into account each of the factors detailed in paragraphs 2.4 and 2.5 above. The overall bounds of an installation are taken into account when making a determination.

2.7. In areas where no postal address exists, the Ordnance Survey (OS) grid reference will be taken from the position of the import/export meter(s) and the area served by the meters will normally be viewed as a single site.

2.8. For installations located on a private wire network, the point where the private wire network connects to the grid will be considered the import/export point
of the site. All installations located on a private wire will be considered to be located on the same site. Only electricity which enters the national grid system is eligible to receive FITs export payments.