My first difficult client!

[Richard Burns]

You have been left in an unfortunate position, but unfortunately one that comes up far too frequently.
When customers are doing the planning things can go badly wrong.
Builders do tend to go ahead and deal with any difficulties as they see fit. Communication is not a strong point.
If you are to cut the holes then explain that this is an extra time requirement and will cost x amount more.
You should really give a written quote / estimate so that you do not get "oh I did not realise x was not part of the cost you quoted"
Remember to try and stay calm and explain clearly, and in writing if necessary, at all times (once you can do this tell me how!)

You should be able to reach your cables as you have left plenty there, unless he has cut them short to make it easier to get the ceiling up!.
Then using a metal / stud detector for finding the plasterboard nails or just tapping for hollow spaces and dead joists should allow you to plan where the fittings should go. Then you can start (gently cutting the first hole, just the drill into the plasterboard as short as possible to avoid catching unknown cables and once the hole is started just use the cutter, cut out the last paper with a knife, unless you can see the hole is clear through the drill hole.
Once you have a hole cut check it is where you expected (ulp) and if so then you can cut the other holes in relation and fish out cables with a wire coat hanger or if you are posh with a cable rod with a hook. If the cable is not visible or reachable by hand (if you do not have ham hands like me) then a flexi camera can look for them to aim the coat hanger, or a small mirror on a rod for the cheaper option.

Good luck and stick with it, bad news travels fastest, if you can remain professional then you should get a good response after the job, with any luck.

I had one very bad job that was driving me crazy and I thought I was burning boats at a fantastic rate and later they recommenced me to some one else!
You can never tell.
Sympathise but do not empathise.

 

[telectrix]

have you been paid for the 1st fix? if so and he won't accept the extra cost to find the cables, walk away. bear in mind that the ceiling couls be stuffed full of insulation and the cables may be impossible to find.

 

[palmerelectrcal]

You have my sympathy...some builders only have one thing in mind ..do their bit get paid and sod everyone else..probably bragging in their pub after 16 pints "how they screwed the sparky" on their latest job.i had a kitchen ceiling with 16 d/lighters...and knowing how women can change their mind,
ran cable back and forth along each joist...clipping very lightly just enough to keep out of the way of the board fixers.made a plan on the joist layout. 2 months later the customer changed all the original lighting positions.. but it wasn't a major problem locating the feeds.

 

[Octopus]

A large percentage of builders want to do our job and don't give a fxck if the lights are right next to the joists or directly under existing cables.

As others have said be sympathetic and "help" the customer if they are reasonable - yes it may cost you an hour or two but another very happy customer is worth its weight in gold!

 

[percysybil]

perhaps cut your losses and walk away?

 

[Dipzy]

Hi HHD, you can download the Bosch measurement camera app (which has been discussed here before). It's really good cos you can take a photo and then edit it with measurement's of joists, cable runs etc. Put all photos/ notes in a folder for that job. Then when you return for second fix you shouldn't have to do too much hunting. :willy_nilly:
Doesn't help with your current situation but I'm sure you'll heed all the good advice, given, as everyday is a learning day.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Well!!! I have spoken to the builder at last and he seems like a thoroughly decent bloke.

The customer is basically trying it on. She told the builder she had changed her mind about the downlights and didn't want them and would try to knock the price down with the electrician by saying they were not spaced correctly (the only grain of truth was that the builder had said 2 of the cables may have to be brought through to the other side of the joist they were hanging on to get all the lights symetrical - a 2 minute job).

Unbelievable.... although I'm sure you guys have come across this type of thing before.

Luckily its just the husband there on friday and he seems ok(ish), so I should get paid!!

The builder said he has had a nightmare with her as well and will be saying he is far too busy when asked for any future jobs!!

You have to be multi-talented as an electrician dont you..

debt collector, counsellor, diplomat!!!

 

[Guest111]

Well!!! I have spoken to the builder at last and he seems like a thoroughly decent bloke.

The customer is basically trying it on. She told the builder she had changed her mind about the downlights and didn't want them and would try to knock the price down with the electrician by saying they were not spaced correctly (the only grain of truth was that the builder had said 2 of the cables may have to be brought through to the other side of the joist they were hanging on to get all the lights symetrical - a 2 minute job).

Unbelievable.... although I'm sure you guys have come across this type of thing before.

Luckily its just the husband there on friday and he seems ok(ish), so I should get paid!!

The builder said he has had a nightmare with her as well and will be saying he is far too busy when asked for any future jobs!!

You have to be multi-talented as an electrician dont you..

debt collector, counsellor, diplomat!!!

don't forget mind reader and knowing when to walk away.lol

 

[HappyHippyDad]

don't forget mind reader and knowing when to walk away.lol

I'd quite like to walk away from this one Phil, but that really would leave them in a whole heap of trouble trying to get it signed off. I shall be as quick as I can, collect paymet, give the MWC's and scarper, never to return!!

 

[camerabloke]

Get paid before handing Certs over HHD

 

[R G]

Never trust a client who leaves it to you to decide on positioning of lights , I always go through with them on the positioning , also its always down to you to drill holes in ceilings, as any holes made by others is usually of the wrong size and position , and always draw a plan before the ceiling goes up with all joist shown and positioning of the light fittings , and one last thing never trust a client, they always change their mind , you will usually find the more you're willing to go ahead with the changes the more they try it on ,

The experiences I have had with builders is crap to say the least , I f you have come in through the customer , and a builders on site , they usually try any trick in the book to P-SS you off , they have there own sparks in mind and think your taking cash out of their pockets ,,,

 

[Dipzy]

Couldn't agree more with above post by Ray.

 

[7029 dave]

As said don't give the certs till money is in your hands, oh and pass them by next time, don't need punters like that.!!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Just another update and a bit more advice needed..

The lady is continually changing her mind now, stating she would supply sockets, now asking me to.. agreeing to a price (its only 5 sockets!!) and now saying does this include the back box (which I had already stated was extra) etc etc etc.

I have just sent a very clear e-mail detailing what the remainder of the cost will be and await a reply.

Quite frankly I am annoyed (yet remaining professional and polite!! ggrrr) and dont want to continue with the job as she has deliberately tried to con me with regards the downlights. What are the legal implications of just walking away from a job after the first fix? Everything has been left completely safe. I dont expect this will happen but the odds are raising!!

 

[R G]

I had em all the time working for a DNO , and it was harder to deal with not just a customer but the company as well , that always looked upon it as your fault and customers always right , in your position lay it down clearly what was quoted and if you have a proper quotation all written out then great , if not or its not comprehensive enough then I would get it done ASAP and discuss all thats on it with the woman , and get it with a stage payment with works completed to date and get her to pay for it , its not easy I know but I sympathise with you , it seems there are people out there set to try it on before work even starts mate .