My House is Falling Down (C4 last night)

[Octopus]

Who saw Sarah Beeny last night on My House is Falling Down?

Electrics were briefly mentioned and an indication of £4K was given for a rewire of a 3 bed semi - which I thought was quite realistic if its basic fittings and nothing fancy.

Your thoughts......

 

[gazzamikes]

i fully agree a scheme combining all should be inplace as you say only allowing registered people to purchase, itll stop the weekend diy'er to!

atleast this series she didnt recommend calling an electrician in the going through everything with them and allowing the owner to install cables etc themselves then the sparks go and test it and slap a 10 year cert on it!

 

[Engineer54]

The way i see it, a lot of these DIY'ers are keeping you lot topped up with remedial work, your cutting your noses off to spite your face here. Your sounding like a newly formed ''Electrical Police Force'' well it's not wanted. If a homeowner wants to be an idiot, it's no concern of yours or mine. How many idiots do we have here, that has tried his hand at potentially dangerous DIY within there homes cars etc, only to have cost you a heap of money to put right when it's all gone very wrong?? But the thing is, most of the time you do a reasonable safe job!! Also not being able to purchase electrical installation materials, can and will take away a householders ability to hire electricians on a labour only basis, by not being able purchase the materials himself. ...Besides, it's just not British, to stop an owner householder from doing whatever small jobs he wants to do in his own house.

You would be far better off, going all out for the introduction of a ''National Registered Electrician Registry'' Where you could then dump all these scam providers, you just wouldn't need them. As a ''Registered Electrician'' you can do all your own notifications, in the same way as these providers do, and at the same cost....

I have little time, for those that want to restrict in anyway the little freedoms that we all have left. The last thing i want to see in the UK is a ''Nanny State'' very much like Singapore has become. ....Go down that route and you'll all be very sorry...

 

[Silly Sausage]

The last thing i want to see in the UK is a ''Nanny State'' very much like Singapore has become. ....Go down that route and you'll all be very sorry...

Here here...don't get me started on 'that' subject. Quiet night for me after the other day.:rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2:

 

[nickblake]

Programs probably sponsored by the NICEIC

 

[D Skelton]

The way i see it, a lot of these DIY'ers are keeping you lot topped up with remedial work, your cutting your noses off to spite your face here. Your sounding like a newly formed ''Electrical Police Force'' well it's not wanted. If a homeowner wants to be an idiot, it's no concern of yours or mine. How many idiots do we have here, that has tried his hand at potentially dangerous DIY within there homes cars etc, only to have cost you a heap of money to put right when it's all gone very wrong?? But the thing is, most of the time you do a reasonable safe job!! Also not being able to purchase electrical installation materials, can and will take away a householders ability to hire electricians on a labour only basis, by not being able purchase the materials himself. ...Besides, it's just not British, to stop an owner householder from doing whatever small jobs he wants to do in his own house.

You would be far better off, going all out for the introduction of a ''National Registered Electrician Registry'' Where you could then dump all these scam providers, you just wouldn't need them. As a ''Registered Electrician'' you can do all your own notifications, in the same way as these providers do, and at the same cost....

I have little time, for those that want to restrict in anyway the little freedoms that we all have left. The last thing i want to see in the UK is a ''Nanny State'' very much like Singapore has become. ....Go down that route and you'll all be very sorry...

I understand what you say however I disagree. We're not cutting off our noses at all. If scam schemes were scrapped and a new government initiative put in place that meant that you could only lawfully carry out electrical work and/or buy electrical materials if you were registered with it, and you could only be registered with it if you were a fully qualified electrician then that would be a great thing! It would be the Gas Safe of the electrical industry. It would mean less people would injure themselves or die trying to perform DIY electrical work, it would raise the standard of the electrical industry as a whole and finally, it would mean that we could then keep our prices at a level that accurately reflects what our skill and knowledge is worth without having to either lose work or cave in whenever bob the builder from down the road comes in and undercuts you by 90%!

As an example, I lost out on a job recently, I quoted just over £2k for a 4 bed, detatched rewire. Now that is low (extremely low for Brighton) but I knew other people would be quoting around the £2.5k - £3k mark. The guy was chuffed to bits with my quote and I was almost certain I had the job until he phoned me a week and a half before I was due to start to tell me that his mate was gonna do it for half what I had quoted! As I'm sure you would have been, I was absolutely speechless! Turns out after a bit of digging that I know of the fella that's going to do it and as far as I'm aware he's a PD/Handyman/Spread. I wouldn't consider myself to be a bitter person but in a way I really hope his house burns down! Maybe he might even learn from it, but one thing is for sure, until it happens, and it will happen eventually, he will continue to think he's got a great deal without thinking of the consequenses.

We as electricians are forever being forced to lower our prices just so that we can compete with a large section of society who are getting more and more comfortable taking their lives into their own hands and it shouldn't be allowed to continue!

 

[sparc]

Like the guy in front of me in Screwfix (when I used to shop there) buying a CU, loads of cable (all 1.5mm2) and a bunch of sockets and switch - oh, and as an after thought - a one screwdriver and voltage stick.

But JamesBrownLive is right, the Napit and Elecsa need to start doing some proper marketing. I'm with NICEIC purely on the basis of polling friends and family before deciding who to sign with - everyone had heard of NICEIC - no one the others. So it was a fairly easy choice. Although they get some stick I've found the very helpful - responsive to email queries on technical issues (even phoning me back to explain it) and flexible on spreading payments.

But I think having a level playing field will be good for everyone.

 

[JamesBrownLive]

If a homeowner wants to be an idiot, it's no concern of yours or mine

No but it might be a concern of the next poor bugger that buys his property, blissfully unaware that the previous owner had never heard of permitted cable zones and that its spagetti junction behind that kitchen wall.

Also not being able to purchase electrical installation materials, can and will take away a householders ability to hire electricians on a labour only basis, by not being able purchase the materials himself.

It the householder is the idiot you have described, then how the hell is he going to know what to buy anyway?

It's not about restricting freedoms, its about being sensible.

 

[grimysparks80]

But I think having a level playing field will be good for everyone.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Id like to set up on my own at some point and it would be nice to know i could register with just 1 authority that covers all sparks

 

[Engineer54]

I understand what you say however I disagree. We're not cutting off our noses at all. If scam schemes were scrapped and a new government initiative put in place that meant that you could only lawfully carry out electrical work and/or buy electrical materials if you were registered with it, and you could only be registered with it if you were a fully qualified electrician then that would be a great thing! It would be the Gas Safe of the electrical industry. It would mean less people would injure themselves or die trying to perform DIY electrical work, it would raise the standard of the electrical industry as a whole and finally, it would mean that we could then keep our prices at a level that accurately reflects what our skill and knowledge is worth without having to either lose work or cave in whenever bob the builder from down the road comes in and undercuts you by 90%!

As an example, I lost out on a job recently, I quoted just over £2k for a 4 bed, detatched rewire. Now that is low (extremely low for Brighton) but I knew other people would be quoting around the £2.5k - £3k mark. The guy was chuffed to bits with my quote and I was almost certain I had the job until he phoned me a week and a half before I was due to start to tell me that his mate was gonna do it for half what I had quoted! As I'm sure you would have been, I was absolutely speechless! Turns out after a bit of digging that I know of the fella that's going to do it and as far as I'm aware he's a PD/Handyman/Spread. I wouldn't consider myself to be a bitter person but in a way I really hope his house burns down! Maybe he might even learn from it, but one thing is for sure, until it happens, and it will happen eventually, he will continue to think he's got a great deal without thinking of the consequenses.

We as electricians are forever being forced to lower our prices just so that we can compete with a large section of society who are getting more and more comfortable taking their lives into their own hands and it shouldn't be allowed to continue!

What makes you think by taking away the right to undertake DIY work on your own home, be it electrical or anything else, will make an electricians life better?? Who are you people, that think your so special, because your a fully qualified electrician that you have the right to dictate to others what you can and can't do in/on your own house??

I know of so called fully qualified electricians than i wouldn't let near wiring a dolls house, let alone anywhere near a house rewire, and i'm dammed sure you know of them too.... Likewise i know of householders that with a little guidance are more than capable of adding or altering circuits in there homes.... Yes you will always have the idiots too, your never going to stop them from doing DIY work that is far beyond there own perceived capabilities, no matter what laws or rules are in place. neither you, I or anyone else are responsible for these idiots actions. The only real requirement for domestic properties that should be made a legal requirement, is that all properties can only be sold or rented with a full inspection/test report that must reach a certain standard.....

Stop blaming Joe public homeowners for the state of our electrical industry in the UK, it has nothing whatsoever to do with them. It has everything to do with the present global economic climate, the greed of established industries, the acceptance of party trained individules, that are creating a whole new sub-section of our industry. (and it's those that are presently under cutting prices) In other words you in part have accepted without any real stand, the lowering of overall standards that once was your biggest asset. The training of electricians today is so abysmal, that most can qualify without any hands on experience or guidance from/with seasoned electricians....

These scam providers do absolutly nothing to further the interests or raise the standards of electricians or our industry, There prime motivation is your money!!! There is no policing policy of sub-standard electricians when there sub-standard work has been reported, just a yearly assessment, that from what i can make of it, a good apprentice could easily pass. You accepted these scammers, without any stand or fight, and your paying dearly for them, in both money and public standing...

What you all should be actively and aggressively aiming for, is a National Register of Electricians, that is based purely on qualifications AND Experience, and sensibly graded accordingly. Restricting those without the necessary requirements, from undertaking work they are just not qualified to perform on their own, without a suitably qualified electrician being also present until such time they can be recognised as being qualified. And a set-up that will enthusiastically police and monitor our industry, that can and Will withdraw or down grade individuals/companies from/within the register when and as necessary, subject to further training or even permanently!!!
Obviously there is going to be a lot more to it than that, but the important thing is, being a nationally recognised Registered Electrician that doesn't need to be a part of any other organisation to practice his trade...


One things for sure, the last thing we need is any further of our freedoms that we have left to be further eroded on that old chestnut of safety!!! We are all responsible for our actions and deeds, not for the perceived actions and deeds of others!!!

 

[IQ Electrical]

Programs probably sponsored by the NICEIC

It very well might be but that is the point that I was making last week on a similar thread, the NICEIC put a lot of money into TV and magazine exposure for the benefit of members while the rest advertise only for new members in electrical trade magazines that the public will never see......

 

[Engineer54]

No but it might be a concern of the next poor bugger that buys his property, blissfully unaware that the previous owner had never heard of permitted cable zones and that its spagetti junction behind that kitchen wall.

There are plenty of Kitchen fitters that are now so called qualified, to install electrics, that wouldn't think twice about running cables via the easiest route. So it's not just DIY'ers, It's tradesmen that you have let get a foothold into our industry

It the householder is the idiot you have described, then how the hell is he going to know what to buy anyway?
It's not about restricting freedoms, its about being sensible.

So what your saying is, that all of the Joe publics out there haven't got any idea what materials to purchase?? i think you'll find that you couldn't be further from the truth, they are not all without common sense, and know what type of wall fittings etc they want in there homes. with a little guidance, a good many would be able to go out and purchase the whole kit for a house rewire....

Nothing sensible about adding more and more restrictions on restrictions that's exactly how freedoms get eroded for ALL!!

 

[D Skelton]

What makes you think by taking away the right to undertake DIY work on your own home

Restrict those without the necessary requirements, from undertaking work they are just not qualified to perform on their own

Who are you people, that think your so special, because your a fully qualified electrician

What you all should be actively and aggressively aiming for, is a National Register of Electricians, that is based purely on qualifications

the last thing we need is any further of our freedoms

Restrict those without the necessary requirements

Some might say that you could be the king of contradiction sir. How about an analogy?

Why do you think that we as british citizens are not allowed to keep a gun without a licence? Do you feel it is a god given right for anyone to own a gun? I certainly don't. I believe that the majority of the british public are more than suitable to own a gun however we are prevented, and strictly so by a government that wants to make sure that a minority of nutters don't get their hands on them. This I feel is a sensible way of controlling things as a gun in the wrong hands spells disaster. Unfortunately, that minority of nutters and criminals alike do get their hands on guns but we have strong, harsh laws in place that deal with anyone found to be illegaly using or possessing a firearm. These laws allow a small amount of people with the relevant amount of skill, trustworthyness and good standing, lawful backgrounds to own a firearm in order to use it professionally, and prevent the rest of us from owning a gun because we haven't gone through vigerous tests to prove our suitability to be able to handle one.

Similarly, why should it be our god given right to do something, whether in our own home or not, that could potentially not only endanger our own lives but that of our families and friends without knowing full well what we are doing? I don't believe it is our god given right. The same as it's not our god given right to perform open heart surgery on the mother in law, in our own home, just because she feels a little under the weather. The same as it's not our god given right to MOT our own cars. The same as it's not our god given right to fit a gas boiler without being Gas Safe registered or build a house without planning permission or drive a car on the road without passing a test.

I believe that carrying out any electrical work in the home without the relevant qualifications should be illegal, just like carrying out gas work, and I defy you to tell me that Joe Public should be able to do their own gas work.

I know of so called fully qualified electricians than i wouldn't let near wiring a dolls house

And I used to know soldiers that couldn't even shoot straight. They were qualified soldiers, but until they had experience, they weren't allowed into battle.

Who are you people that think that you have the right to dictate to others what you can and can't do in/on your own house?

It's not just your own life you're risking. If you want to jump off a cliff, feel free, just as long as you're not dragging anyone else with you.

Yes you will always have the idiots too, your never going to stop them from doing DIY work that is far beyond there own perceived capabilities

You could by making it illegal to sell electrical materials to unqualified, un registered electricians.

It has everything to do with the present global economic climate and the greed of established industries

I mostly agree.

You accepted these scammers, without any stand or fight

No we didn't, they were forced upon us, we never wanted them.

What you all should be actively and aggressively aiming for, is a National Register of Electricians, that is based purely on qualifications

I agree, and a proper qualification should only be awarded to someone with experience, eg. NVQ's. We should be aiming for, like I said in a previous post, a governemt controlled register, like Gas Safe's, that not only enforces laws making it illegal for unregistered people to perform electrical work of any kind and/or purchase electrical tools or materials of any kind, but also sets a high standard of qualification (including experience) to gain registration in the first place.

To sum it up, no one has a god given right to do anything that puts anyone else in danger!

 

[Engineer54]

Very easy to pick and choose, and then take the quotes out of context.

Were also not talking about fire arms or soldiers with fire arms here, or the nutters that have in the past run amok with firearms and killing/maiming purposely as they go!!!

Thank god you'll not get your way, the electrical manufacturing industry will stop that in its tracks. They won't let you take a big bite of there turnovers/profits, they WILL fight!!! Unlike the soft whispers of discontent from electricians when the scam providers started taking your money and are still taking it!!!

Gas Reg's are a little different aren't they, ....that stuff brings down whole buildings by an explosive action. Surely your not saying that electrics should be seen or regarded in the same class of domestic hazard.

I can't think of any civilised country anywhere, that restricts the sale of electrical materials to qualified electricians. Let me know if i have that wrong though!!!

As i say, i have no time for those wanting to restrict my or others freedoms to suit there interests, and the wanna be electrical police force is certainly one of them.... So what are you thinking of having a go at banning next, cause there's always a next, that's the way it always go's, ....till there is nothing else to ban!! ...lol!!!

To sum it up, your talking about ''perceived'' dangers that are taken out of there real context, to suit your interest!!

 

[sparc]

From the perspective of a newbie I have to agree with Engineer54 - well said, sir! I agree it's up to the industry to demonstrate it's worth - not legislate into forcing customers to call in a spark every time they want to put a new plug on.

Having folked out thousands of pounds to get myself this far I've concluded the only people making money in this game are the training and registration bodies we're obliged to pay in exchange for the right to work.

 

[JamesBrownLive]

Nothing sensible about adding more and more restrictions on restrictions that's exactly how freedoms get eroded for ALL!!

Whilst you certainly do make many valid points, the bee that you have in your bonnet regarding 'Freedoms' is not one that anyone on here is going to drive off, and I think it is beginning to take this debate off at a tangent.

It's clear that we are mostly diametrically opposed on this subject, so I think it best we agree to disagree :winkiss: