So they are making these connectors without a rated lifetime. Then de-rating them for use in a MF situation so as to extend the lifespan, but they cannot tell us what the original lifespan was or what it will extend to when de-rated? How do they know that de-rating it is going to extend the lifespan? Why are they not producing connectors which will stand the test of time?
As far as connectors which already exist go they have bee around for a long time and we can all see from existing installations how they stand the test of time when properly installed.
What will that cable tie achieve though? Looking at the picture of them on the website you can see that the writing has already started to rub off of the cable ties, and that's the stock photo from the website! Really doesn't inspire any confidence in its longevity does it?
If discovered at a later date it is likely to have developed a layer of dust or whatever which will have covered the cable tie, and who is going to know what it all means? "instructions must be followed" isn't going to mean jack to anyone other than an electrician who wouldn't need to be told that anyway.
You do appear to have a bit of a downer on these connectors. Do you ask the same questions about crimps, solder connections etc etc before you use them for MF?
because all types of connectors have basically the same issues........
I don't have direct experience of the testing of these connectors but from my product testing experience I would say the following:
]So they are making these connectors without a rated lifetime. Then de-rating them for use in a MF situation so as to extend the lifespan, but they cannot tell us what the original lifespan was or what it will extend to when de-rated? How do they know that de-rating it is going to extend the lifespan?
They will originally have been designed for an expected lifetime. Then samples will have going through excellerated testing (temperature, humidity and vibration cycling while under maximum rated load probably) to prove that they meet the expected lifetime. I suspect the pass/fail criteria for this testing is the increase in resistance measured. That is for non-mf use.
Then they will have been considered for MF use. To pass the BS standard for MF use they would need to pass more rigorous testing. This will probably be a more extreme test cycle with a lower resistance increase limit to ensure that they will last long enough to be buried in the fabric of the building.
Obviously in the wago/line case (they are both the same spec I think) this additional testing found that the maximum current had to be reduced to meet the BS standard.
Why are they not producing connectors which will stand the test of time?
They are, they will have been proved to meet the requirement at the specified (i.e. derated) current.
As far as connectors which already exist go they have bee around for a long time and we can all see from existing installations how they stand the test of time when properly installed.
yes, badly from my experience :lol:
Nothing is perfect, not even a bit of cable will last for ever so the MF stamp doesn't say it is perfect, just acceptable for a specified lifetime. So what would you use that you think is better? Even crimps and soldering is not guaranteed for ever and I have examples of both failing in use.
What will that cable tie achieve though?
All it achieves is ensuring the electrician that fitted it is meeting the regs. BS5733 and BS7671 (reg 526.3 vi) say that it must be MF marked. Other than that you are right, no-one will see it again so who cares.
I suspect line products introduced them just to get round the "but it isn't MF marked so is it really ok to be used?" type questions from customers.
hth. I should stress I have no connection with line or wago other than as a user of their products so all this is assumptions based on my experience of reliability testing products.
. Cannot say I have any issues pushing t/e into wago connectors, useful tip though.
