NEC - Any Feedback?

[SRE]

I can't make it to the NEC did anyone go yesterday - am I missing much?

 

[whinmoor]

Just back from Birmingham. Two things caught my eye:

1) Clear shift in focus onto storage solutions. Solax described SMA's new battery offering as "puny" when I chatted with them.

2) Emerging trend for 'Smart' panels. Trina getting into bed with Tigo whilst Jinko, JA and Axitec have partnered with Solar Edge. I'd like to try some of these products but will probably wait a while in case reliability issues arise.

Most of the big names were there with showcase stands in the middle. Plenty of newcomers (several Chinese) in the cheaper booths around the edge. One brand that sadly wasn't exhibiting this year was Recom. :dunce2:

 

[SibertSolar]

Jinko and others also have options for integrated Tigo optimisers. Recom were there, just not exhibiting. Solax have a 9kW battery limit on their 3.84kW/16A hybrid I think. No mention of G83 on their nameplate but I'm told they do have it.

 

[SRE]

Thanks both - our customers are really keen to find a cost effective solution to battery storage. How long before it becomes a sensible price? From what I've seen so far it just about pays for itself by the time the batteries need replaced.

 

[The Solar King]

Interesting sessions at the show. Those on IET code, MCS and moving to zero subsidy of particular interest.

As for as storage is concerned, I think the words 'cost effective' do not yet enter the equation.

Whilst also being puny, the SMA offering is eye wateringly expensive at around £4.5K. Even the lovely Carmen from SMA could not make the figures add up and had little understanding of the UK FIT framework. The unit would increase self use to 50%!!!!! This would save an additional £100.00 a year at most. The batteries may need to be replaced in ten years time. When you can increase self use and save the same amount of money or more using a proportional controller for £500.00 fitted, the whole thing makes little sense unless you have the kind of incentive currently on offer in Germany.

The Samsung unit on the Sharp stand was more interesting, but equally expensive.

If battery production ramps up for EV manufacture, the price may drop a little. My view is viability will probably take five years and won't be conventional batteries, but some form of Flow unit which is likely to be the size of an American double door fridge freezer.

Loads of Chinese wannabe inverter manufacturers. Very good appraisal of this by Andy on the Sibert stand. Always at his best when his 'diplomatic guard' falls a little.

Also inverter offerings from Bosch which I didn't have time to look at it detail.

Also a big thanks to Andy for talking me through Solar Frontier thin film panels. Very interesting proposition on the right roof and right application. I need to do more research to get costings right.

 

[Gavin A]

Jinko and others also have options for integrated Tigo optimisers. Recom were there, just not exhibiting. Solax have a 9kW battery limit on their 3.84kW/16A hybrid I think. No mention of G83 on their nameplate but I'm told they do have it.

I really don't get this optimiser fetish.

Panels should have failure rates in the 1 in a million sort of range for good panels, maybe 1 in 100,000 for mediocre panels / manufacturers with less factory testing / 1 in 1000 or so for poor panels with only random testing or similar.

Microinverters apparently have a failure rate in the 1:500 range (according to the manufacturers), I'm not sure about optimisers, but it's got to be significantly higher than the failure rate for decent panels, and the benefit for good panels with low variation from panel to panel is in the region of 1-2% performance improvement.

So basically they only make sense for rubbish panels as far as I can see.

 

[SibertSolar]

It's mostly bandwagon jumping and box ticking Gavin, tbh

 

[Gavin A]

It's mostly bandwagon jumping and box ticking Gavin, tbh

I'm sure it is, just attempting to explain why it's not something people should be falling for IMO

 

[whinmoor]

I'm sure it is, just attempting to explain why it's not something people should be falling for IMO

Yes, interesting that panel manufacturers are prepared to be tainted by optimisers which would be considered the weaker link in the arrangement. Who's going to cop it when an optimiser fails? I reckon the end customer will blame the panel company because "the panel stopped working" because that's what the monitoring portal will be reporting.

Overall it could be bad news for the producers who go down this route because greater variation on the production line may mean less scope for economies of scale. The manufacturers who stick with regular panels may have the advantage.

The Trina guy told me they had tested 12 (sic!) embedded options before narrowing it down to Solar Edge or Tigo. They eventually went for Tigo due to the fewer components which they thought would lead to fewer failures. He said they would be in stock soon at Rexel. They are already listed at only a few quid more expensive than the regular 270w equivalent.

Here's the blurb from Rexel's website:

Description

Trina Smart 270W Solar Panel

Trinasmart modules incorporate innovative power electronics from Tigo Energy to achieve module-level diagnostics, maximum energy harvest through module level DC power optimization, and reduction of arc, fire and safety hazards.
Integration of the module optimizer into the junction box enables patented Smart Curve technology, which allows up to 30% longer strings and significant balance-of-system (BOS) savings.

SMART CURVE TECHNOLOGY
Module-integrated Trinasmart technology reduces the open circuit voltage range for each module and allows longer strings to be designed. The maximum voltage is programmed by Trina Solar in the factory.
- Hardware voltage clamp prevents over-voltage - Design up to 30% longer strings
- Fewer combiner boxes, fuses and wiring
- Smaller resistance losses
- TUV & CSA certified

Capitalizing on the advanced Honey technology successfully introduced in 2011, Honey M is the latest high efficiency addition to Trina Solar's Mono crystalline portfolio, featuring up to 16,5% module efficiency and a sleek appearance. The Honey M black features deep black mono cells, black backsheet and frame. Therefore this module is the ideal solution for residential and small commercial installations where space and first-class aesthetics are key.

 

[Gavin A]

hardware voltage clamp?

so in cold conditions it will clamp the voltage at a less efficient voltage point? Brilliant, which genius came up with that idea?