Neutrals overheating

[sparksfly]

On ending a call with Western Power, the previously time served sparks asked...why does many outage calls involve a melted neutral and not line conductor?
1) I suggested Line was probably getting more attention when terminating than neutral.
2) Perhaps the live busbar acting as a heat sink compared to smaller neutral bars in dbs.

Anyone out there got any interesting theories or facts?

 

[freddo]

I replaced a cooker switch 2 days ago where the load side neutral was burnt out.

 

[telectrix]

if i last another 10 years i'll be happy.i will have recovered all the tax i've paid on smokes and beer with the crappy state pension. would need another 10 years after that to get back the tax on fuel and vat that they've stolen over the last 50 years though.so 91 is my survival target.

 

[telectrix]

I replaced a cooker switch 2 days ago where the load side neutral was burnt out.
View attachment 43703

the cause is obvious.the 3.5mm pins have not been fitted..

 

[static zap]

the cause is obvious.the 3.5mm pins have not been fitted..

Naaa
...terminal screws accessible...
...from too many angles... ,
head gets in a spin !
(screwdriver less effective up-hill)
---NON Serious ?! ---

 

[freddo]

It was a pain to replace as well, single plate, and wired in 10mm2. At least there was spare cable in the stud wall.

 

[w0z]

Intriguing question if statistics prove it to be the case.
Is it possible that the mechanical construction of some devices is asymmetrical, resulting in slightly higher heat dissipation the live side, so the neutral always gets just a bit hotter than the live, then over a period of time gets slightly more oxidised, resulting in a bit more resistance etc...?
(perhaps that's more believable where there's a stat or similar on the live side, a bit harder to believe on a completely symmetrical switch or connector)

 

[KentSparky]

I've often seen the neutral conductor burn out at the connections points on high kilo wattage heating elements. You find that the connection has to be very sound and low resistance else the slightest increase in resistance seems to rapidly increase the temperature of the connection, especially common on the neutral side. This is something I've pondered over on many occasion. You may have noticed this on electric showers and such in the domestic sector and things like kilns and such in the commercial sector. Why the neutral side seems to be more susceptible I'd like to get a better understanding of?

Maybe there are too many sparkies using a torque screwdriver to terminate connections?? It's a ridiculous trend

 

[Marvo]

Maybe there are too many sparkies using a torque screwdriver to terminate connections?? It's a ridiculous trend

So you'd advocate ignoring manufacturers instructions because the majority of terminations come with a recommended torque setting?

 

[Intoelectrics]

Maybe there are too many sparkies using a torque screwdriver to terminate connections?? It's a ridiculous trend

I've given you a dis-agree, even though I assume you are referring to the use of impact drivers used for fixings etc... There are situations (as mentioned by Marvo) where torque setting is important.

 

[Intoelectrics]

Just to note, I have seen the situation where the live side of a connection has been poorly terminated resulting in it getting hot and melting yet the neutral is soundly connected but with all the insulation melted away and the cable degenerating from the heat. Yet similar where the neutral was poorly terminated and the live connection sound and showing little to no sign of heat damage. It often seems that the neutral point of connection fails quicker/more often than the live in many situations.

 

[KentSparky]

I've given you a dis-agree, even though I assume you are referring to the use of impact drivers used for fixings etc... There are situations (as mentioned by Marvo) where torque setting is important.

Why have you assumed I meant impact drivers? If I had meant to type impact drivers that is what I would have typed. Confused.com

 

[KentSparky]

So you'd advocate ignoring manufacturers instructions because the majority of terminations come with a recommended torque setting?

I advocate using all the tools you have at your disposal,manufacturers instructions,common sense,experience....etc

 

[Intoelectrics]

Why have you assumed I meant impact drivers? If I had meant to type impact drivers that is what I would have typed. Confused.com

Then I have misunderstood your original point, my apologies.
I'm just as confused why you think using torque screwdrivers is a "ridiculous trend"? Like any tool they can be abused, but used correctly can be a useful bit of kit.

 

[KentSparky]

Then I have misunderstood your original point, my apologies.
I'm just as confused why you think using torque screwdrivers is a "ridiculous trend"? Like any tool they can be abused, but used correctly can be a useful bit of kit.

I referred to torque screwdrivers as a ridiculous trend because firstly there are issues regarding the validity of certain manufacturers torque drivers and also a torque driver is going to need calibrating periodically if you want to be sure it's working as intended,who calibrates them and how often? I would much prefer the old electricians method of terminating cables . T.W.A.T.
Tighten
Wiggle
And
Tighten
Torque screwdrivers are excellent in theory but in practice are a waste of time and potentially dangerous and they have already been blamed for many of the overheating terminals that have occurred on smart meter upgrades as the energy companies insist on their 'highly skilled operatives ' using torque drivers. Basically when you see someone prancing around with a torque driver the first thing that comes into your head is 'all the gear no idea'.
No disrespect intended to anyone or their torque screwdriver.

 

[GBDamo]

I referred to torque screwdrivers as a ridiculous trend because firstly there are issues regarding the validity of certain manufacturers torque drivers and also a torque driver is going to need calibrating periodically if you want to be sure it's working as intended,who calibrates them and how often? I would much prefer the old electricians method of terminating cables . T.W.A.T.
Tighten
Wiggle
And
Tighten
Torque screwdrivers are excellent in theory but in practice are a waste of time and potentially dangerous and they have already been blamed for many of the overheating terminals that have occurred on smart meter upgrades as the energy companies insist on their 'highly skilled operatives ' using torque drivers. Basically when you see someone prancing around with a torque driver the first thing that comes into your head is 'all the gear no idea'.
No disrespect intended to anyone or their torque screwdriver.

Whilst I agree with every word of that have recently purchased two, one for me and one for the old man.

He is mainly doing DBs now as when done they are right and a work of art and he's too old for lugging cables. He uses his daily and loves it.

Mine is in the back of the van waiting for scheme inspector to ask to see it along with lock-out kit and proving unit.