New cable support regulation 521.10.202 (18th)

[MDJ]

Dont suppose what I saw on a job today meets the new regs? It utilises nails and metal wires!!

View attachment 45178

View attachment 45180

I have seen this a 100 times, I wouldn't do it, but it is okay IMO, very common practice by quite a lot of people. It looks rough and isn't the best way, but it probably does comply lol, what else can we say?

 

[ruston]

By the time that burns enough for the clout nails to come out I think the roof would be down anyway.

 

[Darkwood]

I would also heed caution on choosing aluminium as a fixing choice, as I understand it the fixings have to withstand temperatures that fall within a range that would greatly reduce aluminium's structural integrity, I cannot comment about aluminium alloys as that would depend on what it made up of.
I see some of these fixing companies have opted for aluminium so possibly a chat to there technical support wouldn't go amiss if that becomes your weapon of choice.

 

[Spoon]

This is the thread I was talking about.
Should have posted it sooner but the daughter wanted me to play Minecraft with her...

 

[Ian1981]

I think if your worried about plastic wall plugs failing the surrounding structure will have failed anyhow.
I don’t buy into the fact that you can’t use them at all to be honest.
I need more information to be sure tho

 

[happysteve]

I think if your worried about plastic wall plugs failing the surrounding structure will have failed anyhow.
I don’t buy into the fact that you can’t use them at all to be honest.
I need more information to be sure tho

Your wish is my command

 

[Yplan]

Just as an observation I have used linian fire clips and they are spot on and meet the 18th edition but also agree with people on here that by time rawl plugs fail the building would be down anyway.

 

[bigspark17]

@ elecshow the niceic did a talk aboit 18th and stated plastic rawl plugs are ok. So not sure why youve got a problem them. They are embeded into the fabric of the building by the time they melt and give way the buiding will be in a terrible state!

 

[happysteve]

Regarding pastic plugs...

From the PDF report on the link in #21, page 10:

Similar to the first experiment, all the plastic clips on each lintel failed, resulting in the cable dropping down. A new observation from this experiment was that the supports in the centre of Lintel 2 had dropped out of the lintel. This was not a failure of the support but rather a failure of the plastic plugs used for fixing the supports to the lintel.
​

Page 12:

The findings from the short fixings study show that combustible wall plugs in concrete substrates demonstrate signs of weakening of mechanical strength from 300°C and above and that these fixings can fail at 400°C after up to a one hour exposure in controlled conditions.
​

Of course, I'm just picking and choosing bits of the report, it's a bit lengthy but gives a fuller picture.

 

[SparkyChick]

I have a close friend who lost at least one colleague as a result of entanglement due to a collapsed wiring system.

I've been lucky enough to be able to go on an industrial chemical plant training exercise with crews from Lancashire Fire and Rescue Service. If you've never tried on fire fighting gear, trust me we should be doing everything we can to minimise the chances of our work killing another fire fighter (or anyone else for that matter). Even on a cool night, it was stifling, heavy and limited my movement somewhat. I can't imagine the panic of not being able to see what's going on, trying to get yourself out of it.

Don't forget in some situations fires can be directed jets of combustible materials that could potentially create localised heating in the building structure.

They have made changes and crews are being issued with wire cutters, but surely it's better to try and ensure they never need to use them?

 

[MFS Electrical]

I think if your worried about plastic wall plugs failing the surrounding structure will have failed anyhow.
I don’t buy into the fact that you can’t use them at all to be honest.
I need more information to be sure tho

Page 8 onwards is worth a read
https://electrical.------.org/media/1578/fire-performance-of-cable-supports.pdf
Edit- hadn’t realised you had posted this too @happysteve

 

[johnduffell]

yes that BRE doc that's been quoted is very useful.
If people are interested in the tragic reason for this new reg, this is a bit of a sobering eye opener and gives a new respect for what otherwise seems like yet another reg.
https://www.hantsfire.gov.uk/EasySiteWeb/GatewayLink.aspx?alId=4478

 

[MG201]

Like previously said the plastic plug is within a casing of either concerete or block and maybe even behind gypy this will provide the fire rating, same as if cables are above a ceiling the board will provide the rating the raw plug will still there if the fire blazes the cable will melt before the plug

 

[MFS Electrical]

Like previously said the plastic plug is within a casing of either concerete or block and maybe even behind gypy this will provide the fire rating, same as if cables are above a ceiling the board will provide the rating the raw plug will still there if the fire blazes the cable will melt before the plug

The sheath and the insulation may melt before the plug but the rawlplug would melt before the copper the BRE report basically says a red rawlplug won’t cope for very long at all and fails so I personally won’t use them any more for holding up cables/wiring systems where there is a risk of premature collapse I agree though that if it is above a fire rated ceiling like solid gyproc then all will be good

 

[Timbo]

The Napit guys at Elex today said premature collapse is under 30 mins, and the plastic wall plugs in the test lasted for 40 mins. So don't panic.