New consumer unit close to gas pipe/meter

[sidekick]

When replacing a consumer unit. If the current rewireable board is only 80mm from gas pipe/meter can the new board be fitted there or does it have to be moved to comply with the minimum distance of 150mm.
Not possible to fit close if so and would need to be moved over a meter to find space meaning existing cables no chance of reaching.

 

[mattmoo1974]

Mr crimp is your new friend

 

[johnboy6083]

You could use an non combustible insulated partition.

 

[sidekick]

Mr crimp is your new friend

I assume you mean move the board and crimp all cables inside a box to extend them and make them reach.

 

[sidekick]

You could use an non combustible insulated partition.

Would just a piece of fireboard fit that description?

 

[Gravid]

Not sure if the 150mm minimum distance is in our regs, think it's in the gas regs, someone correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[sidekick]

Not sure if the 150mm minimum distance is in our regs, think it's in the gas regs, someone correct me if i'm wrong.

It is in the on-site guide though

 

[mattmoo1974]

I assume you mean move the board and crimp all cables inside a box to extend them and make them reach.

Bingo!

 

[telectrix]

or move the gas pipe. all you need is a lump hammer.:43:

 

[malcolmsanford]

Not sure if the 150mm minimum distance is in our regs, think it's in the gas regs, someone correct me if i'm wrong.

It is a gas reg from the BS 6891, but this BS is relating to installers of gas pipe.

The BS 7671-2008 does not give any distance indications concerning proximity to non electrical service in section 528.3

 

[Rockingit]

The BS 7671-2008 does not give any distance indications concerning proximity to non electrical service in section 528.3 No, but building regs do!

If you're fitting a new board and by the sound of it it's a bit tight for space with the existing cables anyway, I often just put a short section of 75mm box PVC conduit adjacent to cover the old cables - gives you somewhere to make a tidy job of crimp extending your cables (you could even crimp the T&E to singles if it's an advantage). It would also in this instance give you Barrier Protection to the gas pipe so you could stop wondering about 150mm of legality!

 

[malcolmsanford]

The BS 7671-2008 does not give any distance indications concerning proximity to non electrical service in section 528.3 No, but building regs do!

If you're fitting a new board and by the sound of it it's a bit tight for space with the existing cables anyway, I often just put a short section of 75mm box PVC conduit adjacent to cover the old cables - gives you somewhere to make a tidy job of crimp extending your cables (you could even crimp the T&E to singles if it's an advantage). It would also in this instance give you Barrier Protection to the gas pipe so you could stop wondering about 150mm of legality!

And what I wrote about the BS 7671-2008 is wrong then !!!

What part of the building regs tell us this as I thought it was a gas regulation, the same as the cross bonding at a boiler was a gas regulation, but I stand to be corrected.

 

[Rockingit]

OK - I've just lifted the below as a copy and paste off another site so I'm trusting a bit here:

BS6891-2005 8.16.2
Separation of installation pipework from other services.

Where installation pipes are not separated by electrical insulating material, they shall be spaced as follows:
a) at least 150 mm away from electricity meters and associated excess current controls, electrical switches or sockets, distribution boards or consumer units;
b) at least 25mm away from electricity supply and distribution cables.

This is echo'd in the OSG, page 18.

 

[malcolmsanford]

OK - I've just lifted the below as a copy and paste off another site so I'm trusting a bit here:

BS6891-2005 8.16.2
Separation of installation pipework from other services.

Where installation pipes are not separated by electrical insulating material, they shall be spaced as follows:
a) at least 150 mm away from electricity meters and associated excess current controls, electrical switches or sockets, distribution boards or consumer units;
b) at least 25mm away from electricity supply and distribution cables.

This is echo'd in the OSG, page 18.

They are the gas regulations as I quoted on my post which you kindly cut and pasted for me to tell me that it is a building regulation with an exclamation mark

It is not and never been a building reg is it a reg for gas pipe fitters, as they know no better. It is in the OSG guide and it is IMO good advice, but as I work to the BS 7671-2008 I will be guided by them. So I would not be losing to much sleep if my CU was withing 150mm of a gas pipe.

I like to have a pound for the times I have been in a house and seen gas and water pipes, cut outs, CU,s by the score in a cupboard under the stairs where you would have been lucky to get a smoke paper between the services

 

[Rockingit]

It is in the OSG guide and it is IMO good advice, but as I work to the BS 7671-2008 I will be guided by them. So I would not be losing to much sleep if my CU was withing 150mm of a gas pipe.

Isn't that a contradiction? I'm in total agreement with you on the fact that it happens time over, and I'm also inclined to lose too much sleep over most things these days......BUT......Building Regs refer to BS6891 as the applicable standard for gas installations, BS7671 as the applicable standards for electrical installation and BS7671 refers to the OSG which in turn references BS6891. Therefore, I kind of think it's safe to assume that if this were a court case then M'Lud is likely to say that it's 150mm or more.

Unless there's a fire barrier.

 

[malcolmsanford]

It may well be a court case after Jan 2012 as the BGB makes it's first ever reference to the gas regs in 528.3.4 and once that comes into force I will certainly take those regulations into count.

As you say the building regs do refer to the BS 7671-2008 and deem adherence to them as compliant to electrical installations is dwellings and non dwellings, but not solely preclude other standards. In my mind then as the BS 7671-2008 before the amendment never referred to BS 6891 it was something that did not concern me overly, but as from Jan 2012 it will.

 

[Des 56]

This has always been a chicken and egg question
What came first the fuse board or the pipe
If there was some sort of safety issue with close proximity,where lies the guilty party to answer for this terrible danger



Does anyone know,what precisely is the danger that a gap of 150mm from a gas pipe makes in comparison to a gap of say 25mm or less for a consumer unit and furthermore, what danger is there perceived to be in the first instance



Its got me stumped

 

[Rockingit]

25mm is the distance for just cable, but it's things that make sparks and arcs like breakers that is the threat of igniting an explosive leak.

Having witnessed first hand what happens when the spark from a kettle switch meets gas...and the complete disappearance of the house that used to contain them both before they met, I have no issue on erring to caution.

As to who to blame: That's easy. It was the plumber. Always. What was the question again??

 

[Des 56]

Thank you Rockingit,it was the answer I anticipated to be honest,because now I would like to ask the question

If the proximity of the pipe to either cable or electric arcs is necessary to reduce or eliminate gas explosions,then first we have the permitted problem of the usual shared room or position where indeed an explosive atmosphere can indeed exist
With the air and gas of that room mixed to perfection the proximity of an arc to cause explosion may possibly be irrelevant


With this in mind i am sorry but I am still looking to understand the reason for the particular gap mentioned


Flameproof enclosures for consumer units anyone

 

[Knobhead]

I think it’s to give natural ventilation a chance to dilute the gas air mixture to below the LEL. In a cupboard that reasoning goes out the window, (along with the rest of the house). It’s some figure picked out of the air by the know-nothings. If the two services were in a sealed cupboard then the gas air mixture could be above the UEL and be perfectly safe.Crazy Crazy world!I was lucky in being sent as an apprentice to the BASEEFA test site for training, I had a fantastic time finding out about gas explosions!

 

[Octopus]

Ok, lets get contriversual.

Its a board change in an older property, do these "proximity" values actually apply. Lets say the property is 30+ years old, is it a real problem!!

Tin hat on!

 

[telectrix]

old board been there years. not caused a fire yet. stick a bit of scrap asbestos next to the gas pipe.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

This has always been a chicken and egg question
What came first the fuse board or the pipe
If there was some sort of safety issue with close proximity,where lies the guilty party to answer for this terrible danger



Does anyone know,what precisely is the danger that a gap of 150mm from a gas pipe makes in comparison to a gap of say 25mm or less for a consumer unit and furthermore, what danger is there perceived to be in the first instance



Its got me stumped

Love it!

 

[SPARTYKUS]

old board been there years. not caused a fire yet. stick a bit of scrap asbestos next to the gas pipe.

make sure you have full Nuclear, bio and chemical suitage on of course .....(just kidding what aload of cobblers eh)

 

[sidekick]

Thanks to all replies on this thread and interesting reading.
In the meantime the plot thickens - The property has had a visit from the gas supplier who advises gas meter now needs changing but having seen consumer unit at 80mm gap from incomming gas pipe and meter will not proceed and say best they can do is put new supply tap in street with some sort of sub meter in house. Not sure exactly untill customer calms down and explains better as they are in shock from gas supplier advise cost for above would be £1000+.
Only other options non combustable barier which would apparrently prevent closing cupboard containing both meters and consumer unit or move consumer unit.