New panel board required?

[atm84]

So I went to look at a job today in an engineering workshop. They are stripping out the existing machinery and having a reshuffle.

The bus bars are being altered to suit the new arrangement.

The bus bars are fed from a 6 way panel board which was installed in the 1960's.

Would you suggest upgrading the panel board as isolators for it are now obsolete and so old? Ill post some pictures in a bit.

I'm thinking that the existing isolators won't meet current disconnection times etc but don't have any info on it other than the photos.

Many thanks

 

[High Tower]

You can still get some of the older stuff from salvage dealers, but only you can be the judge of weather a piece of equipment is still suitable.

 

[atm84]

Depending on what sort of protection there is internally, (which I need to check) then I don't think it would meet current EAWR for starters.

 

[GMES]

Hold on fella give me a minute

 

[davesparks]

So I went to look at a job today in an engineering workshop. They are stripping out the existing machinery and having a reshuffle.

The bus bars are being altered to suit the new arrangement.

The bus bars are fed from a 6 way panel board which was installed in the 1960's.

Would you suggest upgrading the panel board as isolators for it are now obsolete and so old? Ill post some pictures in a bit.

I'm thinking that the existing isolators won't meet current disconnection times etc but don't have any info on it other than the photos.

Many thanks

What do you mean the isolators won't meet disconnection times? Why does it matter what time an isolator disconnects in? An isolator is by definition an off-load device after all.

 

[Brightspark2]

I assume he is talking about MCCB'S

 

[davesparks]

Maybe, but I'd like to think that someone who is working in an engineering workshop altering busbars and working on panel boards would know the difference and have not got the two confused.

 

[Darkwood]

What do you mean the isolators won't meet disconnection times? Why does it matter what time an isolator disconnects in? An isolator is by definition an off-load device after all.

Isolators have a AC-rating which relates to their ability to switch different kinds of loads from resistive to inductive of different natures ... you comment to say isolators are off load switching devices is incorrect, look at the AC code of a main switch in a consumer unit which is rated for resistive and slightly inductive load switching.

PS .... yes some isolators state no load switching which is where you get your post from and this will be reflected in their AC rating...

 

[bigdavs83]

If it states no load switching then it's a switch disconnector and not an isolator. Just saying...

 

[davesparks]

If it states no load switching then it's a switch disconnector and not an isolator. Just saying...

If it's a switch disconnect or then it combines the function of both a switch and an isolator (Disconnector) and so is good for on-load switching as well as isolation.

 

[davesparks]

Isolators have a AC-rating which relates to their ability to switch different kinds of loads from resistive to inductive of different natures ... you comment to say isolators are off load switching devices is incorrect, look at the AC code of a main switch in a consumer unit which is rated for resistive and slightly inductive load switching.

PS .... yes some isolators state no load switching which is where you get your post from and this will be reflected in their AC rating...

Ok, I am happy to stand corrected if I am wrong but I was taught that:
Isolator = off load device designed to disconnect from the source of supply, also called disconnectors
Switch = on-load device designed to switch the supply to control a load.
The above can be combined in the same unit to become isolating switches / switch disconnectors.

So your example of a main switch in a consumer unit is normally listed as being a switch-disconnector by manufacturers, it fulfills both roles.

 

[D Skelton]

Ok, I am happy to stand corrected if I am wrong but I was taught that:
Isolator = off load device designed to disconnect from the source of supply, also called disconnectors
Switch = on-load device designed to switch the supply to control a load.
The above can be combined in the same unit to become isolating switches / switch disconnectors.

So your example of a main switch in a consumer unit is normally listed as being a switch-disconnector by manufacturers, it fulfills both roles.

I was taught exactly the same thing.

Although I was also taught that an isolator would trip under fault conditions! lol

 

[bigdavs83]

Not as far as we have been led to believe I'm afraid the idea is in the title. It's all about load shedding. There is no issue with turning off the switch disconnector with all the loads applied however you must not re energise it with all the loads applied or you run the risk of blowing it. That's why it's called a switch disconnector. Personally I would always load shed both ways.

 

[davesparks]

Not as far as we have been led to believe I'm afraid the idea is in the title. It's all about load shedding. There is no issue with turning off the switch disconnector with all the loads applied however you must not re energise it with all the loads applied or you run the risk of blowing it. That's why it's called a switch disconnector. Personally I would always load shed both ways.

Wtf? breaking load current is a hell of a lot more onerous on a switch than making onto a load.

It is called a switch disconnector as it combines the functions of both a switch and a disconnector (isolator)

 

[Darkwood]

Ok, I am happy to stand corrected if I am wrong but I was taught that:
Isolator = off load device designed to disconnect from the source of supply, also called disconnectors
Switch = on-load device designed to switch the supply to control a load.
The above can be combined in the same unit to become isolating switches / switch disconnectors.

So your example of a main switch in a consumer unit is normally listed as being a switch-disconnector by manufacturers, it fulfills both roles.

In your defense here the terminology has slightly changed over the years I was taught 'load break switch' but now you can buy variants on Isolators, disconnectors and switches with the specified AC-rating which goes against what even I was taught hence I corrected you but yes generally what you say is correct but not always.