New project, advice sought

[GBDamo]

I'm starting a new project on Monday, new dental practice conversion from a shop.

Nothing new here, customer doesn't know what electrical heating they're having, doesn't know what electric hot water they're having, hasn't decided outlet locations, switch locations or just about any aspect of the electrical installation. There are various dental specific specifics they haven't confirmed as yet. The fire alarm and emergency lighting has been spec'd and laid out at least.

None of this worries me, we have 100A three phase on site which will be more than adequate for any eventually. We'll make it happen, we always do.

What they have planned, in meticulous detail, is c£10k worth of LED lighting, inlaid into plaster in a number of free flowing horizontal and vertical curves in multi layered plastered ceilings and walls, topping all skirts and wrapping all door casings.
The office are looking into how we can install this, my only stipulation is it has to be serviceable without damage when the inevitable failures start to occur.

Fortunately the LED suppler has been stipulated by the interior designer which gets us of the hook for the impending catastrophic failure of the inevitable pile of chinesium we'll have to install.


My plan is to route all the lights back to one location where all the drivers will be housed. I'm expecting 15-20 of them. This will all then be energized by a contactor/s, switched from the main lighting grid switch (if they ever decide where it will be located).

As an aside I've seen the colour scheme, picture an 70s curry house with garish LED lighting.

For now, there are no dimmers or sophisticated lighting controls and long may that continue.

I don't have any experience with these LED tapes and strips and was hoping for a heads up on any potential pitfalls.

My biggest concerns are serviceability, heat management and cabling, especially with lengthy runs of 24V cable.

Obviously the shock factor has gone but I am concerned about fire.

Anyways, enough rambling. Thoughts please.

 

[snowhead]

Don't see any mention of Air con in the list of don't knows.
Or Data points and network(s)

 

[GBDamo]

Don't see any mention of Air con in the list of don't knows.
Or Data points and network(s)

I am pushing for AC but they seem more interested in pretty lights.

Data is cable runs only, I don't make off or test.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Hard to see how controls wont come into play. FWIW - i would not trust with blind faith the component choice of the lighting designer. One way or another you will own it, if it "works as expected" or not. If you are going for PSUs/drivers in a central location, i would assume this is a modest sized practice so length of cable at 24V should hopefully not be a problem. As its a commercial building strategically placed ceiling hatches are useful for hiding stuff, they are around 7" square and painted same as ceiling, opened with a square key.
Assume this is all white light, no funky colours...

 

[westward10]

Never been in a dental surgery room where there is fancy lighting. You normally have clean lighting with no distractions.

 

[GBDamo]

Hard to see how controls wont come into play. FWIW - i would not trust with blind faith the component choice of the lighting designer. One way or another you will own it, if it "works as expected" or not. If you are going for PSUs/drivers in a central location, i would assume this is a modest sized practice so length of cable at 24V should hopefully not be a problem. As its a commercial building strategically placed ceiling hatches are useful for hiding stuff, they are around 7" square and painted same as ceiling, opened with a square key.
Assume this is all white light, no funky colours...

Yes all white, thankfully.

They won't accept ceiling hatches and the longest cable run is likely no more than 20m. I appreciate this may mean running some 4mm flex to manage VD on the bigger drivers.

It all a bit of supposition at the moment we've two weeks of gutting the place first during which time we can hopefully nail down some specifics.

I know what you mean about trusting their components but the company did seem legit, can't remember a name but they're bringing some samples to site next week so will get more details then.

 

[SJD]

Not a comment about the lighting, but a more general comment.

I did a fair bit work in a dental practice a few years back, and one thing they overlooked was resilience of services when something failed. If you have several treatment rooms, and something fails in one, you don't want it to stop the other rooms from working.

As an example, the waste water gets filtered to collect any mercury, and they thought it a good idea to have one combined pump/filtering unit for the practice. When it failed, nobody could use their suction gear and all work stopped. Till they could get someone from the company that supplied/services the unit out.

So I'd try to keep things independent between treatment rooms, even sockets/lights on separate circuits, anything tripping can put the room out of action (dental chairs typically plug in, overhead specialist light units are vital to see what you are doing). Then there are the drugs in a fridge that must not lose power, sterlising units, etc.

 

[GBDamo]

Never been in a dental surgery room where there is fancy lighting. You normally have clean lighting with no distractions.

I know, I've done a few.

There's a distinct switch from what we remember as a dentist to more of a cosmetic services centre. More interested in straightening and whitening than fillings.

It's where the money is and where the dentists want to be and why you can't get an NHS dentist anymore.

It's all about glitz and glamour now.

 

[GBDamo]

Not a comment about the lighting, but a more general comment.

I did a fair bit work in a dental practice a few years back, and one thing they overlooked was resilience of services when something failed. If you have several treatment rooms, and something fails in one, you don't want it to stop the other rooms from working.

As an example, the waste water gets filtered to collect any mercury, and they thought it a good idea to have one combined pump/filtering unit for the practice. When it failed, nobody could use their suction gear and all work stopped. Till they could get someone from the company that supplied/services the unit out.

So I'd try to keep things independent between treatment rooms, even sockets/lights on separate circuits, anything tripping can put the room out of action (dental chairs typically plug in, overhead specialist light units are vital to see what you are doing). Then there are the drugs in a fridge that must not lose power, sterlising units, etc.

This why we put a small DB in every critical room and have all critical equipment on its own circuit, that the chair, intraoral X-ray and the suction pump as well as general sockets and lights. Things like compressors, servers, autoclaves etc...

The number of practices that are in converted houses with poorly modified domestic circuits is frightening.

 

[littlespark]

My two recent LED projects haven’t gone exactly to plan.

Good customer wanted lights around his telly on a custom built media wall. All in all, 10m of 12v RGB tape on a 70W PSU… the biggest CEF Fusion range could supply.
In the circuit was a remote control receiver for dimming and colour change.
It all worked well for a good few weeks until January 2nd. I got a text saying lights wouldn’t work.
Replaced the receiver, and it’s working again.
Receiver is rated for 72W.
I’m hoping it was a one-off fault, and the replacement doesn’t die as well.

The PSU and in turn, the reciever are never powered off. The tape is only controlled by the remote. I’m wondering if that could have something to do with it.


My second incident is some tape under the shelving in my van powered off an old drill battery.
Apparently 14.4V doesnt go into 12V tape, and there’s an area of only 3 chips in a row on one of the two tapes where there’s no green output.



My dentist also has plain rooms. White ceilings, different pastel shades in each treatment room.
No fancy coloured lighting.

 

[Rockingit]

Genuine question - to what extent are we meant to apply 710 to 'everyday dental clinics'? My psycho ex is a dental professional and I remember a conversation with her many years ago about the consequences of power failure and other issues and she was very spirited that there are certain proceedures which could result in a life threatening situation should there be a loss of power at the wrong moment.

Also totally agree about the stupidity of things like communal air compressors and filters etc, they had just that issue at her surgery which is how I ended up in there on occasions taking a look when their service company couldn't get to them fast enough!

 

[SJD]

It's all about glitz and glamour now.

Reminds me, my dentist has a TV mounted on the ceiling above the chair, so you can be distracted watching music videos while he works!

 

[GBDamo]

Reminds me, my dentist has a TV mounted on the ceiling above the chair, so you can be distracted watching music videos while he works!

Yep, this place want the same.

 

[babyshanks]

Sorry to revive a dead thread here but should you not be installing some sort of UPS according to 710.512.1.2 ?

 

[mainline]

Sorry to revive a dead thread here but should you not be installing some sort of UPS according to 710.512.1.2 ?

The locations are defined by Groups relative
to the procedures which are carried out.