New sub board for shed swa advice.

[Jcamerz]

Hi guys new to the forum after bit of advice. My family are installing a new shed in the garden and require a lot of power ie few sockets, lights. I am planning of running a swa fed from 32a mcb from the main board to a sub board.
Have a question-
Shall I install the new 32a mcb in the main board on the RCD side or main switch side?
Thanks

 

[telectrix]

i think EAWR does apply to domestic installations, inasmuch as during any works carried out on the installation, and also the fact that you could consider housewives ( and house husbands for the PC loonies) to be working, even if only using a dishwasher. tin hat secured with cable ties and a bit of sticky tape.

 

[telectrix]

duplicate

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Sorry but no.
The EAWR applies to employees and self employed persons while they are carrying out work tasks.
The only time a domestic installation would fall within the remit of the EAWR is if there were servants or domestic staff working there.
The EAWR would not apply to the installation, but would apply to the work practices of a tradesperson working in a domestic installation.

 

[telectrix]

i agree. with that. myhousewife analogy may be a bit misleading, but it applies not only to the electrician working there on the installation, but to the safety of other trades e.g. tilers, woodbutchers, gas fitters, etc. ( sod plumbers, they don't deserve consideration. .).

 

[Deleted member 9648]

We work to bs7671 in normal installations. As long as the disconnection time is met there is only a requirment to earth a conductive part that is part of a cable, no set in stone requirement of where. Nobody is ever going to be prosecuted for earthing at the load end and meeting ADS requirements,and to suggest so is ridiculous.
For small SWA cables (1.5/2.5/4.0 etc) with a cpc on shortish runs I'll frequently banjo one end only, whichever end is most convenient. I can see no point in making additional work doing both ends. Longer runs and larger distribution circuits with higher fault currents I'll do both ends.
NICEIC AC and our inspector has never queried it.

 

[ferg]

I have a vague memory of a reg somewhere that stated it should be earthed at at least one end and 'preferably' the supply end.

 

[Devonchris]

I know The HASAWA doesn't apply to domestic property or servants, and i thought EAWR was the same. However on searching i found this.

Electricity at Work Regulations 1989.

Appendix
(para 5(5))

Electrical safety and enforcement in domestic premises
1 HSW Act s.3 and EAW Regulations apply to installation, maintenance and repair work in domestic premises. The Consumer Protection Act applies only to the provision of electrical goods or products, eg sockets etc but not to their installation.

2 Therefore, there is a possibility of inspectors becoming involved in questions of electrical safety at domestic premises. Unlike gas safety, however, there are no specific regulations. Inspectors have no powers of entry unless work activity is in progress and there are no requirements to report defects.

It goes on. Here's a link if your interested.
Its in the appendix.

OC 480/2: The electricity at work regulations 1989 - http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/ocs/400-499/480_2.htm#para27

 

[Dave OCD]

What are these occasions then?

Ok, how about a supply to an outside socket or shed where you're coming from an existing socket on a RFC, plasterboard walls so you put in a single dry lining box for a DP switch or SFCU and drill through to outside behind the box, how do you earth the armour at that termination ? Yes I know you could terminate into a box outside but why create another unnecessary connection when you can earth the armour at the other end ? Or you could have an insulated CU to take your SWA from with no space around it for an additional connection box and no way of drilling a 20mm hole into it.

 

[netblindpaul]

The EAWR does not apply to a domestic installation.

Spin, that is incorrect.
Read the requirements of Reg 3, then look at HASAWA, Reg 3, and come back and tell me that EAWR does not apply to domestic work, and explain your defence against these laws.

 

[Octopus]

I have a vague memory of a reg somewhere that stated it should be earthed at at least one end and 'preferably' the supply end.

It’s not in the BYB .... possibly in a guidance note .... but that’s only guidance..... and not many people buy the guidance notes ... in fact I suspect fewer people are buying the big books , and fewer still actually read the incoherent regulations .....

 

[Colin33]

It should a earthed or connected to the same earthing system as used by the protective device protecting the SWA.

Does this statement suggest that it can be connected to whatever earthing arrangement exists at the origin OR alternatively, connected to a separate earthing arrangement at the load end?

 

[netblindpaul]

As you have disagreed Murdoch, and you will not accept that you are wrong.
Please read these quotes, verbatim, straight from the LAW of the land.
EAWR89 & HASAWA74.

EAWR89:
Persons on whom duties are imposed by these Regulations
3.—(1) Except where otherwise expressly provided in these Regulations, it shall be the duty ofevery–
(a)
employer and self-employed person to comply with the provisions of these Regulations inso far as they relate to matters which are within his control; and
(b)
manager of a mine or quarry (within in either case the meaning of section 180 of the Minesand Quarries Act 1954(2)) to ensure that all requirements or prohibitions imposed by orunder these Regulations are complied with in so far as they relate to the mine or quarry orpart of a quarry of which he is the manager and to matters which are within his control.
(2) It shall be the duty of every employee while at work–
(a)
to co-operate with his employer so far as is necessary to enable any duty placed on thatemployer by the provisions of these Regulations to be complied with; and
(b)
to comply with the provisions of these Regulations in so far as they relate to matters which are within his control.

HASAWA74:
3 General duties of employers and self-employed to persons other than their employees.


(1) It shall be the duty of every employer to conduct his undertaking in such a way as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that persons not in his employment who may be affected thereby are not thereby exposed to risks to their health or safety.

(2) It shall be the duty of every self-employed person who conducts an undertaking of a prescribed description to conduct the undertaking in such a way as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that he and other persons (not being his employees) who may be affected thereby are not thereby exposed to risks to their health or safety.

(2a) A description of undertaking included in regulations under subsection (2) may be framed by reference to—

the type of activities carried out by the undertaking, where those activities are carried out or any other feature of the undertaking;

whether persons who may be affected by the conduct of the undertaking, other than the self-employed person (or his employees), may thereby be exposed to risks to their health or safety.

(3) In such cases as may be prescribed, it shall be the duty of every employer and every self-employed person, in the prescribed circumstances and in the prescribed manner, to give to persons (not being his employees) who may be affected by the way in which he conducts his undertaking the prescribed information about such aspects of the way in which he conducts his undertaking as might affect their health or safety.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Does this statement suggest that it can be connected to whatever earthing arrangement exists at the origin OR alternatively, connected to a separate earthing arrangement at the load end?

If the SWA was feeding a separated TT installation then clearly the conductive part of the SWA would be earthed from the supply (TN) end,and electrically separated from the earthing arrangement at the load end..

 

[Octopus]

As you have disagreed Murdoch, and you will not accept that you are wrong.
Please read these quotes, verbatim, straight from the LAW of the land.
EAWR89 & HASAWA74.

EAWR89:
Persons on whom duties are imposed by these Regulations
3.—(1) Except where otherwise expressly provided in these Regulations, it shall be the duty ofevery–
(a)
employer and self-employed person to comply with the provisions of these Regulations inso far as they relate to matters which are within his control; and
(b)
manager of a mine or quarry (within in either case the meaning of section 180 of the Minesand Quarries Act 1954(2)) to ensure that all requirements or prohibitions imposed by orunder these Regulations are complied with in so far as they relate to the mine or quarry orpart of a quarry of which he is the manager and to matters which are within his control.
(2) It shall be the duty of every employee while at work–
(a)
to co-operate with his employer so far as is necessary to enable any duty placed on thatemployer by the provisions of these Regulations to be complied with; and
(b)
to comply with the provisions of these Regulations in so far as they relate to matters which are within his control.

HASAWA74:
3 General duties of employers and self-employed to persons other than their employees.


(1) It shall be the duty of every employer to conduct his undertaking in such a way as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that persons not in his employment who may be affected thereby are not thereby exposed to risks to their health or safety.

(2) It shall be the duty of every self-employed person who conducts an undertaking of a prescribed description to conduct the undertaking in such a way as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that he and other persons (not being his employees) who may be affected thereby are not thereby exposed to risks to their health or safety.

(2a) A description of undertaking included in regulations under subsection (2) may be framed by reference to—

the type of activities carried out by the undertaking, where those activities are carried out or any other feature of the undertaking;

whether persons who may be affected by the conduct of the undertaking, other than the self-employed person (or his employees), may thereby be exposed to risks to their health or safety.

(3) In such cases as may be prescribed, it shall be the duty of every employer and every self-employed person, in the prescribed circumstances and in the prescribed manner, to give to persons (not being his employees) who may be affected by the way in which he conducts his undertaking the prescribed information about such aspects of the way in which he conducts his undertaking as might affect their health or safety.

Hum .... no where in that lot does it say the earthing must be attached at the supply end .......

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Spin, that is incorrect.
Read the requirements of Reg 3, then look at HASAWA, Reg 3, and come back and tell me that EAWR does not apply to domestic work, and explain your defence against these laws.

I did not say the EAWR does not apply to domestic work.
I said the EAWR does not apply to a domestic installation.