nic and using other make mcbs in c/u

[vitoboy]

hi all
has anyone noticed that the nic have issued guidance that you can only use original makers mcbs in consumer units...
im a bit dissapointed at this really....as most 60898 mcbs are inter changable and even made in the same place with a differnt sticker/logo on.
any thoughts ....im sure some of you must have fitted different makes of mcb in cu's before now eh..

vitoboy

 

[Octopus]

IMHO best practice is to use the same make where ever possible as the board manufacturer. I hate looking at some of messy upgrades that have been done using anyold breaker.

 

[RISElectrical]

I agree it is always better to use the manufacturers own MCBs however in practice this isnt always possible and TBH I don't see a problem with using another brand of MCB in a board, so long as they truly are designed to fit and not "forced to fit".

Think this is just the NIC making up their own rules a little, more a case of what they like to see rather than what is acceptable.

 

[richy3333]

I posted this on another thread:

Tony Cable’s Frequently Asked Questions

Q. Is it permissible to use equipment (such as circuit-breakers, RCDs, main switches etc) made by one manufacturer in a consumer unit or distribution board which is made by another manufacturer? A. Usually not. Manufacturers’ instructions for consumer units and distribution boards generally advise against this for technical reasons (such as potential overheating). Equipment from different manufacturers should not be mixed unless documentation is obtained from the consumer unit or distribution board manufacturer which confirms that the specific mixed arrangement is suitable for use in an assembly conforming to BS EN 60439-3.

 

[RISElectrical]

If the MCBs are to the same BS then i dont personally see a problem

 

[plugsandsparks]

Merlin Gerin, Schneider and square D are all labelled under their brand name, when i have looked at them side by side its hard to tell a difference and keep up with their marketing and brand movements. I too would prefer they all look the same but its not always feaseable, never heard or seen a problem by mixing, although the dimensions especially around the hole centres can vary and as such dont fit properly. If i need to fit an extra or different breaker and the wholesaler does not stock that item i get a physical match using whatever brand is available. I would need convincing technically that there is a real issue to worry about.

 

[Plonker 3]

So let me get this right, customer has a faulty breaker on a DB, MCB is only available via mail order. Others are available that fit but not the same make. Customer needs MCB replacing ASAP as it is important that the circuit is reenergised. Only way is to change DB at a extortionate cost, no wonder people are skeptical about us and trying to rip folk off.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

I can see where he is coming from. Its the BGB's get out clause...."Manufacturers Instructions are to be followed"

And I have seen MCB's not quite fitting inside the covers due to being off-set up or down slightly from its neighbour.

 

[Plonker 3]

Also what about a enclosure with a din rail mount, how is that any different?

 

[plugsandsparks]

I think its important to read the manufacturers installations for sure but they often "advise or recommend" and sometimes mandate. I get advised to do things all the time usually by a motive of profit somewhere mixed in, having said that on my last job (wont mention the manufacturer) but i needed to move some machines around and could have used the old breakers in the new board i have fitted, but after lookng at the quality of the board they came from i though no way, cheap nasty lookng things they were.

 

[Engineer54]

Just shows that the so-called BS 60898 type testing isn't what it Say's it is, if manufacturers can then turn round and say that another manufacturers type tested BS 60898 MCB that is physically a perfect fit can cause over heating etc!! ...lol!!

Sounds more like product protectionism to me!! As others have stated, it's often the case that they are exactly the same MCB unit, made in the same factory and on exactly the same machine but with a different brand logo printed on them.

In such circumstances i would have no problem whatsoever, installing a such a replacement unit!!

 

[Wiredspark]

I understand that if it fits you may want to use it and we all know that there are certain manufacturers appear to use the same dimensions and physical appearance. However this does not mean that they are even made in the same factory using the same materials. Even though they are type tested, this does not mean that i.e square D mcb's built in factory A have been tested on Merlin Gerin boards built in factory B. (incidently I think they are made in the same place, Im just playing devils advocate)

 

[Engineer54]

So what's going to be that drastically different from one CU/DB to another?? What's the point having a BS type test, if all the parameters are going to be different from one manufacturers CU/DB to another??

I didn't say all will be made in the same factory on the same machines, but it is indeed the case in many instances... You can play devils advocate as much as you like, it's good that we do.... But If your going to have a BS type test, then those that carry that type test logo should be suitable for installation in any standard CU/DB providing they are a good physical fit. I agree that it may not ''look'' as good as an all the same MCB manufacturer set up, but saying that there is a ''difference'' between one type tested MCB and another, doesn't and shouldn't really stack up in my eyes...

 

[richy3333]

So let me get this right, customer has a faulty breaker on a DB, MCB is only available via mail order. Others are available that fit but not the same make. Customer needs MCB replacing ASAP as it is important that the circuit is reenergised. Only way is to change DB at a extortionate cost, no wonder people are skeptical about us and trying to rip folk off.

I guess the argument would be that in the event of a fire the sparky would be blamed for mixing different manufacturers parts 'contrary to their instructions' and they would try and absolve themselves of fault and blame the elctrcian. Not mixing different parts is somewhat of an rectal-protecal initiative?

It would be interesting for people with different scams to ask the question to NAPIT, ELECSA et al

 

[the pict]

So if I fit all wylex product in a generic enclosure it not type tested?? ******** I have made up metal clad enclosures for yonks using old MK and Proteus enclosures for upgrades where supply is via SWA I change din to accept new gubbins and stick the compulsary labels over any makers logos etc
Pict