no earth

[Farmelectrics]

third party story so dont shoot the mesenger just wanted to share this and see if any of are fellow sparks have come across this my mate goes to a house to investigate why there is no earth into property this has come to light as the gas board wont install new boiler as there is no earth how right they were aswell. the supply is a tnc-s the incoming cable has been put into a hennely block (jb) as the meter has been re moved to outside by scottish power so the meter reader can read without access into property. so meter now outside with a new 2 core 16mm ran to outside length roughly 10metres (not right) scottish power come out today and say there is no brass plate in hennly block (jb) which provides the earth. in effect this property has been in a potenially dangerous condition. scottish power are to put this right sorry for long winded story your thoughts please

 

[driverman]

They provided one originally and then didn't reinstate it when the meter was moved and mech your wrong they have a legal requirement to provide you with an earthing arrangement into your property it's then your responsibility to get one to your consumer unit

I don't think it is a legal requirement for them to provide an earth. What if TT supply? That would be down to the electrician to ensure an adequate earth was provided by themselves. The same with with any other form of supply. When a PME terminal has been supplied, it's up to the electrician whether it is used or not.

 

[trev]

I don't think it is a legal requirement for them to provide an earth. What if TT supply? That would be down to the electrician to ensure an adequate earth was provided by themselves. The same with with any other form of supply. When a PME terminal has been supplied, it's up to the electrician whether it is used or not.

They do not have to supply an earthing facility but if they do they have to maintain it. In this case they've provided one in the past so after moving the supply they should have reinstated it.
I did have my doubts earlier but after reading what others have said I have to agree with them. There is no installing electrician here, just a DNO guy who moved their toys.
It's totally different from the scenario you're proposing

 

[driverman]

Ah well all sorted out now, but why they reconnected it, is baffling. Not only that 10m away from original position .

 

[mechelec]

I seem to have caused some confusion. My post no 33 was in reply to farmelectrics who phoned the DNO and said they have " a legal requirement to provide an earthing arrangement for each property"

They do not have to provide an earthing terminal to each property at all.
I then went on to say that they do have an obligation to maintain any earth terminal they do provide.

I appreciate that this property had an earth terminal provided that was incorrect and as such the DNO do have a duty to maintain it.
That does not mean they have any legal obligation to provide an earth terminal.

 

[Farmelectrics]

Ok mech I get what your saying so how could an electrician provided an earthing arrangement in this case because to do so you need to get the dno involved anyway to reconnect the pme head is out of bounds the dno guy came out and reinstalled the pme head live something us electricians are not allowed to do would you agree and if so then how the hell were we ment to do it with out the dno

 

[trev]

Could have stuck temp rods in, that's what I'd have done

 

[mechelec]

Ok mech I get what your saying so how could an electrician provided an earthing arrangement in this case because to do so you need to get the dno involved anyway to reconnect the pme head is out of bounds the dno guy came out and reinstalled the pme head live something us electricians are not allowed to do would you agree and if so then how the hell were we ment to do it with out the dno

Again........ if they provide an earth terminal then they have a duty to maintain it.

 

[7029 dave]

With new connections and we are talking new, cant speak for other suppliers, we fit self connect meters or isolation switch, no ZE taken, NO earth conductor fitted, all new cut outs have red/black plug on cover of ne link, for access to the electrical contractor to make his connections.

 

[Farmelectrics]

Ok Dave didn't no that I'll take that on board

 

[davesparks]

With new connections and we are talking new, cant speak for other suppliers, we fit self connect meters or isolation switch, no ZE taken, NO earth conductor fitted, all new cut outs have red/black plug on cover of ne link, for access to the electrical contractor to make his connections.

Some of your people do take a Ze! They wrote it on the head when ours was done a few weeks ago.

 

[7029 dave]

Some of your people do take a Ze! They wrote it on the head when ours was done a few weeks ago.

Are they the DNO for that area?

 

[davesparks]

Yes, it was a service move rather than new service but they completely removed the old on and installed a complete new service from a different pole rather than joint and extend etc.

They fitted a new head and isolator with the old meter and wrote the measured Ze on the head. They didn't connect the tails or earth though.

 

[7029 dave]

Yes, it was a service move rather than new service but they completely removed the old on and installed a complete new service from a different pole rather than joint and extend etc.

They fitted a new head and isolator with the old meter and wrote the measured Ze on the head. They didn't connect the tails or earth though.

WPD, are the DNO on my patch. Mpan 11

 

[davesparks]

That's a bit different then, I forget not everyone has the DNO and meter operator as the same company.

In this area new services and service alterations they always fit or move the meter.
I've had issues when straying in to what was EDF territory where they wouldn't move the meter on an alteration.

 

[driverman]

WPD, are the DNO on my patch. Mpan 11

im in mpan 11 area also

 

[7029 dave]

Who do you work for Driver.?

 

[driverman]

Who do you work for Driver.?

Used to work for SEB EMEB Eon Central Networks WPD for my sins

 

[7029 dave]

Used to work for SEB EMEB Eon Central Networks WPD for my sins

Up in Kettering then. lol

 

[driverman]

Up in Kettering then. lol

Nope, miles away >>>>>Lincolnshire

 

[7029 dave]

Okay, go a job come in.All best

 

[driverman]

Okay, go a job come in.All best

I take it,that is stand-by? They still call it that?

 

[Timmy]

I've seen similar a couple of times, most recently in sunny Northampton! Inside the mains cut out housing there is a solid metal link attached to the neutral block. When the supplier installs as pme they breach the housing wall between the neutral and earth block enabling the bridge to be made. It seems that the highly skilled engineers sometimes forget to do this and must also forget to test!
Energy providers hey, law unto themselves!

 

[7029 dave]

I take it,that is stand-by? They still call it that?

Yep lol

 

[driverman]

I've seen similar a couple of times, most recently in sunny Northampton! Inside the mains cut out housing there is a solid metal link attached to the neutral block. When the supplier installs as pme they breach the housing wall between the neutral and earth block enabling the bridge to be made. It seems that the highly skilled engineers sometimes forget to do this and must also forget to test!
Energy providers hey, law unto themselves!

Bit like some electricians never testing their own work. good and bad in all walks of life.

 

[Guest111]

I had. exactly the same on a shop in Altrincham,I don't know which was worse,the fact it had been like that since installed over 20 yrs ago or the fact that the premise had had work done on it at several timeas yet obviously no one had bothered to carry out the proper tests

 

[Engineer54]

I've seen similar a couple of times, most recently in sunny Northampton! Inside the mains cut out housing there is a solid metal link attached to the neutral block. When the supplier installs as pme they breach the housing wall between the neutral and earth block enabling the bridge to be made. It seems that the highly skilled engineers sometimes forget to do this and must also forget to test!
Energy providers hey, law unto themselves!

For a start Engineers don't install or connect meters, meter monkey's do that work and most of them will have just a few days of in-house bench training and a few days if their lucky going out with an experienced meter installer!!

Who's to say that the supply to that installation had a PME supply?? It may have been a straight Line(s) and Neutral supply which needed a TT earthing system to be installed. The meter monkey's these days as far as i'm aware, use a one design service cut-out that fits all, hence the need for breaching the barrier between the earth and neutral blocks to bridge them within the cut out.