No earthing on lighting circuit

[KevinH]

Hi all, I've been asked to make an old 4 story townhouse "safe" and issue cert for renting out.
Hasn't been touched for so long it has bakerlite accessories with wood backing!
Straight away I'm seeing replace all accessories, replace CU, upgrade earthing. The wiring is all in PVC cables but typical no earthing on lighting circuits.
I hear you all scream "REWIRE"!
Problem is property is highly decorated and furnished and owners would rather not go down that route.
My question is, if I fit all plastic accessories throughout, and clearly state on CU and cert NOT to fit any metallic fittings. Can I get away with that?
Just asking as whenever I've come across this problem in past, I've always rewired lighting so bit unsure what complies.
By the way, I've done quick IR, ring loop tests, Ze etc and all ok, but how do you R1+R2 lighting with no earth?

 

[telectrix]

you can do that, but obviously no R1+R2 on lights, and ensure that all switch faceplate screws are either into nylon lugs or covered with some form of insulating material. ( the plastic push in caps would probably suffice).

 

[ferg]

https://www.----------------------------/media/1203/best-practice-guide-1-issue-3.pdf

In there are your options.

 

[Pete999]

Hi all, I've been asked to make an old 4 story townhouse "safe" and issue cert for renting out.
Hasn't been touched for so long it has bakerlite accessories with wood backing!
Straight away I'm seeing replace all accessories, replace CU, upgrade earthing. The wiring is all in PVC cables but typical no earthing on lighting circuits.
I hear you all scream "REWIRE"!
Problem is property is highly decorated and furnished and owners would rather not go down that route.
My question is, if I fit all plastic accessories throughout, and clearly state on CU and cert NOT to fit any metallic fittings. Can I get away with that?
Just asking as whenever I've come across this problem in past, I've always rewired lighting so bit unsure what complies.
By the way, I've done quick IR, ring loop tests, Ze etc and all ok, but how do you R1+R2 lighting with no earth?

When you say the LL asked you to make safe, I feel your only option would be to carry out an EICR report your findings on an EICR Certificate and pass it to the Landlord, not done anything with rental properties, but I think there are special arrangement for certifying Rental Properties, there will be other Electricians on this forum who do this sort of thing as their main service, if you're not desperate hang on till one picks up on this post.

 

[Pete999]

When you say the LL asked you to make safe, I feel your only option would be to carry out an EICR report your findings on an EICR Certificate and pass it to the Landlord, not done anything with rental properties, but I think there are special arrangement for certifying Rental Properties, there will be other Electricians on this forum who do this sort of thing as their main service, if you're not desperate hang on till one picks up on this post.

Ferg has sent you a good starting point.

 

[Andy78]

I'm not a fan of the class 2 and label bodge. I would recommend a rewire every time and have walked away from some that don't want to.

 

[telectrix]

could always convert lighting to gas... .

 

[Pete999]

could always convert lighting to gas... .

Need to know if the Gas has been bonded then Tel

 

[telectrix]

damn. so my granddad ain't got his lamp lighting job back. he's turning in his grave ( that disturbed earth bottom the garden where my grandma put him and got his pension for 25 years before the dwp twigged).

 

[Risteard]

how do you R1+R2 lighting with no earth?

Obviously you can't as there is no R2 to measure.

 

[Risteard]

I'm not a fan of the class 2 and label bodge. I would recommend a rewire every time and have walked away from some that don't want to.

Indeed such an approach is not actually recognised by BS7671 - I bet no-one can find the wording of any such label within any Edition of the Wiring Regulations.

 

[westward10]

We don't touch jobs like this, rectify or walk away. I am also of the belief a plastic light switch is not double insulated even with non conductive fixing screws, it is a plastic light switch.

 

[Nigel]

Common sense needs to prevail. To say to a customer it is either complete re-wire and thousands of pounds worth of decorating or nothing is a little silly in my book.

There is nothing wrong with fitting plastic accessories. Remember you are not changing the circuit so you do not have to bring it up to current Standards. That said if there is nothing wrong with the existing switxhes why change them at all?

When wired it was completely acceptable to install plastic accessories and not have an earth on the circuit. If an EICR was carries out today with only plastic fittings installed it would only warrent a C3 so that in itself suggests it is not dangerous.

 

[westward10]

Bakelite accessories on wooden back boxes, I am walking away unless they opt for rewiring.

 

[Andy78]

Here's an interesting addition. I re-read the ESC best practice guide on consumer unit changes prompted by this thread. Section 10 deals with situations where lighting circuits have no cpc.