No earthing

[Baker1988]

Hi every one how are you all on this fine bank holiday.
I have a friend of mine who has asked me to change a light fitting in his house it is a rather old house i went to see what he needed doing and when i got there i saw that he has no earthing on his lighting circuit ( infact he has none on any circuit and he has bronze plated swichs and sockets) the light he wants is a metal chandelier type light.

I said to him i will not change the light fixture as it has no earthing for the metal and he started offering me more money to get me to do it but i still said no and said to him he needs to get it rewired or a seperate eath put in but he is having none of it and has said he will get a fully qualified spark in to do the work as it must be ok not to have earth or it would have earth am i right in thinking a spark wont touch this as it is? and am i right to turn this down?

 

[Geoffsd]

I'm afraid falling back on things is no longer allowed - H & S and all that.

 

[Engineer54]

and its some of the adds for these courses n all eng that make me laugh...when you look at em....not spent 1 day on the tools in their lives..lol....

These training course centers are another, but at the end of the day, it's these scheme providers that have been given the responsibly of setting and confirming competence. Most, if not all of these Electrical Trainee guy's from these training centers are NOT competent!! But the training course centers are feeding off of the scheme providers, and there low entry levels. If the level/standard of competence was raised back to the level it once was in the past, many of these training centers would be folding up through lack of students..lol!!

 

[johnboy6083]

its amazing that somebody could take the 2330 exams and fail, or fail the AM2, but be registered with the mobs, and be allowed to trade as an electrician, in any size property. Complete bullocks.

 

[ipf]

It's all this 'domestic installer' c***. Another name for 'half way house' to me. In the past it was 'qualified' or 'not', now it's a case of 'who knows', maybe even who cares ? With a few thousand quid, anybody can consider themselves qualified. 'Electrician' isn't the word that springs to my mind??

 

[sedgy34]

you could demonstrate to your friend what a shock is like by meggering him lol (not really)
he will then go with the earthing option
the no earth scenario was ok donkeys years ago double insulated singles etc with PLASTIC FIXTURES AND FITTINGS
not the done thing today, a sparky wont touch it and your right not to be doing the metal fitting
ask him the question if you changed the light fitting and he went to change a lamp at a later date and had a shock DIRECT CONTACT would he call you to give you a peice of his mind???i would assume hes got the old consumer unit and rewireable fuses too

 

[GLENNSPARK]

you could demonstrate to your friend what a shock is like by meggering him lol (not really)
he will then go with the earthing option
the no earth scenario was ok donkeys years ago double insulated singles etc with PLASTIC FIXTURES AND FITTINGS
not the done thing today, a sparky wont touch it and your right not to be doing the metal fitting
ask him the question if you changed the light fitting and he went to change a lamp at a later date and had a shock DIRECT CONTACT would he call you to give you a peice of his mind???i would assume hes got the old consumer unit and rewireable fuses too

so the no earthing scenareo was ok was it?....so whats the purpose of earthing then?....

 

[Strima]

so the no earthing scenareo was ok was it?....so whats the purpose of earthing then?....

Mate of mine does a lot of work in Thailand, apparently they don't see the point in earths...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Mate of mine does a lot of work in Thailand, apparently they don't see the point in earths...

thats insane.....so they have no concept of ADS and disconnection times etc?....mad....

 

[La Poste]

It's funny you mention Thailand because I have a few friends there.

From the little information I can piece together there are no electrical standards and no electrical regs available to guide electricians.

Apparently a lot of the installations have no earth at all, they were based on two wire systems sort of like an earth free IT system but unfortunately over time the insulation has broken down and has begun to leak with no ADS in place in case of an earth fault.

Apparently there are a lot of fatal electric shocks in Thailand.

This is all heresay because I have never actually visited the country myself but it seems in Thailand the idea of an earth circuit was considered a waste of time.

It may be different in the more modern areas.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

It's funny you mention Thailand because I have a few friends there.

From the little information I can piece together there are no electrical standards and no electrical regs available to guide electricians.

Apparently a lot of the installations have no earth at all, they were based on two wire systems sort of like an earth free IT system but unfortunately over time the insulation has broken down and has begun to leak with no ADS in place in case of an earth fault.

Apparently there are a lot of fatal electric shocks in Thailand.

This is all heresay because I have never actually visited the country myself but it seems in Thailand the idea of an earth circuit was considered a waste of time.

It may be different in the more modern areas.

sort of like a `post code lottery` then..lol....

 

[Des 56]

Having no earth reference in a system and supply is a brilliant system,live straight down to earth and no effects

That is until the second fault scenario ,then it tends to become worthwhile

 

[La Poste]

Aye, you never know.

"Phuket - A Russian tourist was electrocuted and restaurant manager severely injured in a power leakage at a swimming pool Wednesday night, police said.

Police said Fedor Samsonov, 45, was killed in the swimming pool of Dewa Hotel on the Karon Beach.

Surasak Phetsut, 33, the restaurant manager, was severely injured when he tried to rescue the tourist.

Witnesses told police that Samsonov was exiting the pool when he touched the rail of the pool and was electrocuted by the leaked power."

Russian tourist electrocuted in swimming pool of Phuket hotel - The Nation

A classic example.

 

[ipf]

Aye, you never know.

"Phuket - A Russian tourist was electrocuted and restaurant manager severely injured in a power leakage at a swimming pool Wednesday night, police said.

Police said Fedor Samsonov, 45, was killed in the swimming pool of Dewa Hotel on the Karon Beach.

Surasak Phetsut, 33, the restaurant manager, was severely injured when he tried to rescue the tourist.

Witnesses told police that Samsonov was exiting the pool when he touched the rail of the pool and was electrocuted by the leaked power."

Russian tourist electrocuted in swimming pool of Phuket hotel - The Nation

A classic example.

Phuk that for a game of soldiers. Bit much for a leaking swimming pool. Once more, send for a plumber.

 

[ringer]

...
ask him the question if you changed the light fitting and he went to change a lamp at a later date and had a shock DIRECT CONTACT would he call you to give you a peice of his mind?....

Why would he get a direct contact shock? Having an earth or not is nothing to do with direct contact.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Aye, you never know.

"Phuket - A Russian tourist was electrocuted and restaurant manager severely injured in a power leakage at a swimming pool Wednesday night, police said.

Police said Fedor Samsonov, 45, was killed in the swimming pool of Dewa Hotel on the Karon Beach.

Surasak Phetsut, 33, the restaurant manager, was severely injured when he tried to rescue the tourist.

Witnesses told police that Samsonov was exiting the pool when he touched the rail of the pool and was electrocuted by the leaked power."

Russian tourist electrocuted in swimming pool of Phuket hotel - The Nation

A classic example.

was that exiting it ..or `exiteing` it..lol....

 

[Strima]

thats insane.....so they have no concept of ADS and disconnection times etc?....mad....

Most of them are Bhuddists, when your time has come, your time has come, it's destiny. I'd love to work out there for a few months just to see what its like.

 

[Engineer54]

Obviously nothing bonded back to the MET for the OCPD to see a fault exists!! Generally, All metal steps, diving boards etc, have a bonding terminal incorporated into there fixing systems. These are normally taken to the re-bar of the swimming pool, which is in turn bonded back to the MET or the EMT of the pools electrical systems in the plant room!! I doubt very much if there was any form of RCD protection incorporated, especially if it was an older Hotel!!
Even if there was, if it had been causing nuisance tripping in the past, it would have been quickly by-passed, ...not replaced!! lol!!