No provision for earth on downlighters

[phawk]

I'm in the process of re-wiring a large house for a building contractor, and I'm hoping to get my NAPIT self-certification using this job. The only problem I have is that all materials have been supplied by the company I'm contracting for, and the downlighters they've supplied have no provision for earth! Surely this is breaking BS7671? They are a trade pack from Screwfix LAP Fixed Mains Voltage Downlight Contractor Pack Brushed Chrome 240V Pk10 | Screwfix.com.

Not only am I concerned about this as a safety issue, I'm also worried that if the NAPIT inspector asks for a Zs test on a fitting he will fail me/the job immediately, as when I pull the fitting down he will se that it is not earthed.


Can anybody shed a bit of light on why there is no provision for an earth on these fittings?

Thanks

 

[Deservices]

Normally the earth point Is on the bar that holds the connector, as the actual fitting doesn't touch anything but the bulb.

 

[somersetsparks]

If they are double insulated or class 2 , then they require no earth and as such have no provision for it.
Lucky old me has never had the pleasure of fitting a downlighter, so i am sure someone else can give the lowdown on that?
The most popular way I have seen is a 5a 3 terminal JB with T+E with the earth pulled out llining to the fitting.

 

[Octopus]

The CPC should be taken to every point on the circuit. If this means tucking it back and covering it at each downlight then so be it.

My guess is that the assessor won't be that perdantic.

 

[electric will]

The CPC should be taken to every point on the circuit. If this means tucking it back and covering it at each downlight then so be it.

My guess is that the assessor won't be that perdantic.

I got pulled up doing it like this a couple of years ago, elecsa assessor said to install small junction box M/f? Then run short length of 2 core flex to downlight,
he said the cpc has to be terminated correctly in an enclosure .

 

[phawk]

Unlikely they are class 2, they are a mega cheap fitting! I do not recommend them at all! The earthing is continuous throughout the circuit, just put away in a connector block above the fitting.

 

[somersetsparks]

I got pulled up doing it like this a couple of years ago, elecsa assessor said to install small junction box M/f? Then run short length of 2 core flex to downlight,
he said the cpc has to be terminated correctly in an enclosure .

I think that he is probably technically right, in the same way as you shouldn't leave the earth sleeving long and fold back when using T+E for light switches in fast fix boxes. All coinductors must be properly terminated etc.

 

[somersetsparks]

Unlikely they are class 2, they are a mega cheap fitting! I do not recommend them at all! The earthing is continuous throughout the circuit, just put away in a connector block above the fitting.

What do they say on them, or on their packaging? They would still have to pass a type approval to be sold in the UK

 

[electric will]

To be honest, I'm glad he did its so much better having the length of flex when fitting the lights in the ceiling. The twin and earth fights ya a bit. Also do it even if their class one.

 

[Farmelectrics]

t&e terminated into lighting jbs and flex out to spots is the way ive allways done it if there class 2 terminate eaths into connector

 

[SirKit Breaker]

My main concern with these things are. What are you installing them into, and have you considered the fire rating for their intended installed position? If you haven't, and you get it wrong, you have breached part P, and this definitely wont sit well on your assessment. I cant advise, because i dont know what/where you are fitting them. i used to install fire rated spots as a matter of course, they aren't that expensive these days.

Cheers...........Howard

 

[phawk]

Just an update, they're awful fittings - I got the builder to help me put some up and by the end he was swearing and saying 'why the ..... didn't I buy the better fitttings?!' LOL. Obviously I said 'I told you to', he wasn't impressed!

Originally I just put them up and joined the cpc in a connector block and tucked it away, I then re-did them all in the 5A JB with a length of 2 core flex as suggested. All well and good until I went to put them away in the ceiling and found the JB was about 5mm to big to go into the hole DAMN! Went back with a saw and opened them up a bit, put them away, tested them - hey presto all good!

What a palaver!

Oh, and they are fire rated, class 2 spots.

I only ever ask for advice on here, but for once I'm giving it - dont buy LAP trade pack spots!

 

[sjm]

I'm afraid that the 5 amp JB's don't meet the requirements of BS7671 if they and the cables going to them aren't secured.
You should have used Ashley 501 JB's or other options that secure the cables, if you want to do it properly.

 

[loop3]

Selv or 230? Location?

 

[loop3]

Good luck with the assessment! They'll thro a couple of question at you so be ready. E.g. What are and why do we use equipotential bond conductors? That s an easy one by the way.