nvq level 3 am2

[jamesie]

trying to get jib card, got 2360 part 1 and 2, 17th edition and 2391.working as a spark for 30 years.

References from 3 jib approved companies i have worked for as a subby. jib would only give me a trainee card.

saying i need am2 or nvq level 3, looked at doing the am2 apparently testing and inspecting is part of it whats the point of doing the same thing twice.

seems stupid to me, anyway round it.

 

[Engineer54]

I do agree with you E54 but apart from references which I think can be false what else do you think can prove practical competence?

At least references given on company headed paperwork can be checked/authenticated. It would be a very silly move on the company's behalf to give a falsified reference, even for a friend!! You have more chance of a NVQ being falsified than a company's reference.

Unfortunately there is no other way to prove practical competence, the NVQ system as it stands is more of a sticky plaster to cover over what once was expected from all working electricians that had passed through an apprenticeship....

 

[Guest125]

I think the 2360 P1&2 (or whatever it is now) NVQ 2&3 and after a few years the 2391 (or whatever it is now) is enough as far as qualifications go. From then on you will find your market and perfect your skills.

AMT2 is worthless IMHO.

But on top of all this you need people skills, computer literacy, common sense and many other skills that I believe come from an apprentiship.

 

[7029 dave]

The NVQ along with the AM2 proves that you have the practical experience.

Disagree there, any old mug can take an photo as evidence, don't mean to say they done such tasks.

 

[rmc86uk]

What about the AM2 then? What's your opinion on proving practical competence? You should see the numpties I see week in week out on the site I'm on. How do they slip through the net and get on site?

 

[Guest125]

Disagree there, any old mug can take an photo as evidence, don't mean to say they done such tasks.

Yeah. "Proves" is probably the wrong word. I understand what he is trying to say. At the end of the day no Certs "prove" anything. They just show that you passed an exam once.

 

[Guest125]

I have never liked the AM2. Carrying out installation in a controlled atmosphere is unrealistic. The NVQ carried out over two years is the best we have and I think it is worth something. I think a few old school sparks will never accept any modern qualification no matter how good they may be. A lot of them are on this forum.

 

[7029 dave]

What about the AM2 then? What's your opinion on proving practical competence? You should see the numpties I see week in week out on the site I'm on. How do they slip through the net and get on site?

You have to remember, I am from an totally different generation, when done my C&G236, 50%was practical course work, pass or fail simple as that before you even sat the closed book. Fail any one of these it meant deferred end of.

 

[Engineer54]

I have never liked the AM2. Carrying out installation in a controlled atmosphere is unrealistic. The NVQ carried out over two years is the best we have and I think it is worth something. I think a few old school sparks will never accept any modern qualification no matter how good they may be. A lot of them are on this forum.

It's not worth a jot, if the holder has only gone through the motions. I'm not saying that all holders of the NVQ 3 haven't completed them legitimately, but there are far too many that used totally bogus photo's and logbook entries therefore gaining an equally bogus NVQ cert!!

Where a certification system of checks and balances is open to abuse/fraud, then you'll generally find that is what's going to happen, ...it's human nature, especially where high fee's are concerned.

Yes it's the best you have at the moment, but at the end of the day it's a sticky plaster to cover up the falling standards of training. There is a lot to be said and missed about the training many of those so-called old sparks/dinosaurs training. ....And you're dead right, I AM one of them and damn proud to be so too!!

 

[Maddison]

What about the AM2 then? What's your opinion on proving practical competence? You should see the numpties I see week in week out on the site I'm on. How do they slip through the net and get on site?

numpties that hold a gold "electrician " JIB card or the ones that like you to think they are qualified ?

 

[Guest125]

It's not worth a jot, if the holder has only gone through the motions. I'm not saying that all holders of the NVQ 3 haven't completed them legitimately, but there are far too many that used totally bogus photo's and logbook entries therefore gaining an equally bogus NVQ cert!!

Where a certification system of checks and balances is open to abuse/fraud, then you'll generally find that is what's going to happen, ...it's human nature, especially where high fee's are concerned.

Yes it's the best you have at the moment, but at the end of the day it's a sticky plaster to cover up the falling standards of training. There is a lot to be said and missed about the training many of those so-called old sparks/dinosaurs training. ....And you're dead right, I AM one of them and damn proud to be so too!!

Both my NVQs were hard work. Especially level 2 as I had zero experience. Everything can be forged in this modern world but that is not the fault of the qualification but the fault of the people using these fraudsters to get what they want. It is only short lived anywy because anyone who submits a forged NVQ portfolio will be sussed out very quickly.

Out of interest, what was the industry 'norm' to get yourselve the title 'qualified' during your learning days?

 

[Engineer54]

Both my NVQs were hard work. Especially level 2 as I had zero experience. Everything can be forged in this modern world but that is not the fault of the qualification but the fault of the people using these fraudsters to get what they want. It is only short lived anywy because anyone who submits a forged NVQ portfolio will be sussed out very quickly.

Out of interest, what was the industry 'norm' to get yourselve the title 'qualified' during your learning days?

Explain how they are going to be caught out with providing bogus photo's and a willing witness signaturory?? It's human nature to try and cut corners, and the certification methods used in the NVQ3 procedure leaves itself wide open to such abuse....

Full C&G 236 via an indentured apprenticeship, learning your trade skills on the job with fully qualified electrician/technician mentors was the normal way of things in my time.
My training was a lot different though, based on both industrial maintenance and installation via a company trade school and factory (5 factories in all) wide floors with mentors. covering several different departments including MV distribution systems...

 

[Guest125]

Explain how they are going to be caught out with providing bogus photo's and a willing witness signaturory?? It's human nature to try and cut corners, and the certification methods used in the NVQ3 procedure leaves itself wide open to such abuse....

Full C&G 236 via an indentured apprenticeship, learning your trade skills on the job with fully qualified electrician/technician mentors was the normal way of things in my time.
My training was a lot different though, based on both industrial maintenance and installation via a company trade school and factory (5 factories in all) wide floors with mentors. covering several different departments including MV distribution systems...

Because when they turn up to work they won't be good for nothing.

Nothing is an exact science in this world but suggest something better? I can't think of a better way?

 

[Engineer54]

Because when they turn up to work they won't be good for nothing.

Nothing is an exact science in this world but suggest something better? I can't think of a better way?[/QUOTE]


But they will still get taken on as a Gold Card Approved JIB/SJIB graded electrician, and some projects are so big, it could take a while for anyone to be as you say, ''Sussed Out''!!

Read my post 23 again....

 

[jamesie]

i did all my qualifications at nightschool whilst working full time as an electricians mate so i had probably more practical experience than any apprentice.

what is the point in doing the am2 when a percentage of the exam is testing and inspection and i already have the 2391 qualification.

How many guys who have passed there am2 in the last year or so can terminate micc, they dont even do it in the am2. total waste of time.

 

[Guest125]

i did all my qualifications at nightschool whilst working full time as an electricians mate so i had probably more practical experience than any apprentice.

what is the point in doing the am2 when a percentage of the exam is testing and inspection and i already have the 2391 qualification.

How many guys who have passed there am2 in the last year or so can terminate micc, they dont even do it in the am2. total waste of time.

I have been in the game 16 years and have only ever terminated 3 ends. I do not understand why in some circles this is the bench mark to becoming a 'proper sparks'..