NVQ onsite assessment gold card

[ryan2324]

Hi everyone,

i have a question about JIB ECS Gold cards.
im wanting to know how come somebody who hasn't been to college is able to get a gold card through an onsite assessment nvq. Somebody I work with has just done it and all he had to do was take pictures of himself on site. Do a little write up and send it off. Nobody actually ever visited him on site!! Yet the rest of us has had to go to college for 4 years. How is this able to happen?? He is now a graded electrician and never sat an exam.
what are people's thoughts on this??
should it be allowed to happen??

 

[Pete999]

Hi everyone,

i have a question about JIB ECS Gold cards.
im wanting to know how come somebody who hasn't been to college is able to get a gold card through an onsite assessment nvq. Somebody I work with has just done it and all he had to do was take pictures of himself on site. Do a little write up and send it off. Nobody actually ever visited him on site!! Yet the rest of us has had to go to college for 4 years. How is this able to happen?? He is now a graded electrician and never sat an exam.
what are people's thoughts on this??
should it be allowed to happen??

Does "Somebody" belong to one of the scams"?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Its called jib mature candidate assessment NVQ level 3 2356-99. He should of been working in the industry for at least 5 years to be eligible. He should have completed Portfolio, underpinning knowledge questions, and AM2 to complete the NVQ. He would also need have passed the 2382 (17th edition) regs exam to apply/be graded as an electrician.

 

[ryan2324]

Hey,
well he didn't have to sit the AM2 I know that and he sat the regs exam but failed it twice!
dont see how you should be able to get a gold card from a portfolio. Makes a mockery of it all. He has worked in the industry for 10 years so I'm guessing they gave him it based on that plus the portfolio

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hey,
well he didn't have to sit the AM2 I know that and he sat the regs exam but failed it twice!
dont see how you should be able to get a gold card from a portfolio. Makes a mockery of it all. He has worked in the industry for 10 years so I'm guessing they gave him it based on that plus the portfolio

unless he done the old NVQ then the company he done it with need reporting to C&G/EAL as the AM2 is mandatory.

 

[Andy78]

unless he done the old NVQ then the company he done it with need reporting to C&G/EAL as the AM2 is mandatory.

Hear, hear. I've heard lots of bad things about training centres latching onto NVQs and how they can fudge them. Usually C&G inspect a random portion of a centre's NVQ folders as they don't have time to inspect them all. If the selected ones pass, they all pass. If there are problems, all the portfolios get looked at. This is a loophole in itself.
I have also heard of centres offering "simulated" experience by filling folders full of workshop based experience. I have no idea of C&G's stance on this practice.

 

[ryan2324]

If that's how C&G inspect, then that's ridiculous. Obviously they can inspect every single paper but to pick just one isn't right. I hope this sort of thing isn't allowed to continue. It will end up with everyone on site having a gold card skilled or not

 

[Andy78]

If that's how C&G inspect, then that's ridiculous. Obviously they can inspect every single paper but to pick just one isn't right. I hope this sort of thing isn't allowed to continue. It will end up with everyone on site having a gold card skilled or not

They don't pick just one. They will pick a random selection of portfolios, bearing in mind these are 3 inch thick full lever arch files, and spend a day scrutinising them.
This will, or should, be in addition to the internal verifier for the centre having scrutinised every single portfolio. what the external verifier is doing is effectively checking on the internal verifier rather than the candidates themselves.

In a respectable college this is usually a system that works. Anything flagged up means the questioning of internal verifiers and possible withdrawal of body affiliation. In a (theoretical of course) institution that is money driven and prone to internal falsification of evidence then this may be harder for external verifiers to spot any covering up of lack of candidate experience.

 

[TJ Anderson]

He has worked in the industry for 10 years

Well, that is why then. 10 years industry experience and and he would have had to pass knowledge assessment, why shouldn't he have a grading as a sparks. Between him and and someone out of the 2 to 3 year "appenticeships" they are doing now, I know who would be the one you could leave to get on with the job unsupervised.

 

[Adam W]

Well, that is why then. 10 years industry experience and and he would have had to pass knowledge assessment, why shouldn't he have a grading as a sparks. Between him and and someone out of the 2 to 3 year "appenticeships" they are doing now, I know who would be the one you could leave to get on with the job unsupervised.

Exactly - you don't need a technical certificate to get a gold card, just an NVQ3; the technical certificate just proves the underpinning knowledge part, which can be done alternatively via assessment if the candidate holds the relevant experience.

I think we all agree that what is wrong is how people with no site experience can go from sitting behind a computer to wiring up people's houses after 5 weeks in a training centre.

 

[ryan2324]

Apprentiships are not 5 weeks or 2 years or 3 years they are 4 years. I'm not saying that someone that has just finished their 4 year college course is suddenly the best sparky in the world either. I'm also not saying someone with 10 years experience is **** either but if what you guys are saying is correct then do you think they should just get rid of apprentiships then? Don't bother going to college because you don't need it and after a few years you'll will no the job inside out anyway? Right ok so your talking about leaving people unsupervised ok so you mean to tell me that this lad that has no doubt got used to the job he's doing but as soon as he comes up against a problem he needs to go look in his regs book. Oh no wait he can't read the book because he's failed it twice! A simple exam which has got to be the easiest exam you can do out of them and he can't do it.
I saw him do this nvq assessment and it was pretty much just take photos next to certain things with a smile on your face. When some of the write ups came up he pretty much got someone else to do Most of it. These folders that are handed in can be written by anyone. There are no checks that you have done it so how can that be fair?? I don't agree with what your saying at all

 

[7029 dave]

It was long ago but the same, I knew a guy got JIB graded Approved Electrician, he had never gone to college in his life, but had over 15years site experience. I am talking over 30 years ago, he was working for quite a big firm and they gave the JIB all the references hence he got graded.

 

[Adam W]

Of course they shouldn't just "get rid of apprenticeships", the point is that in the olden days when job security wasn't much of an issue firms might have put trainees through their own version of an apprenticeship without ever setting foot in a college or sitting an exam, the problem being on paper they had nothing to show for it; all good and well if they stayed with the company but not so easy to leave and get another job.

This guy who has worked in the industry for 10 years won't have spent 10 years sweeping up and making tea, he will have picked up a lot about the job; do you not think that after all that time it's a bit harsh to send him back to the beginning thereby making a 14 year apprenticeship?
"Taking pictures of yourself standing next to certain things with a smile on your face" is basically what the NVQ3 is. No it doesn't take a genius to point to a visitors book or delivery note, but that's part of the content of the qualification, just as the 17th edition exam is "thumbing though a book and ticking boxes".

The way this guy has got his gold card isn't ideal, it isn't a standard route, but there need to be viable alternatives to going to work with your uncle for 4 years, which isn't ideal either.

 

[wayneob]

And??? Think it's a great way of those electricians mates that have been doing it for years but never got formally qualified can now be registered and recognised as sparks, and let's face it there are some cracking sparkys out there that have never been to college! What benefit is a bloke that's been doing it 10-20yrs gonna get from a 4yr apprenticeship??? I can hardly remember what I learned at college it's been that long!! It's all about experience on the kit!!

 

[7029 dave]

And??? Think it's a great way of those electricians mates that have been doing it for years but never got formally qualified can now be registered and recognised as sparks, and let's face it there are some cracking sparkys out there that have never been to college! What benefit is a bloke that's been doing it 10-20yrs gonna get from a 4yr apprenticeship??? I can hardly remember what I learned at college it's been that long!! It's all about experience on the kit!!

I started off at 15 years of age with a guy that had never been to college. He was one of the best sparkies I ever worked with.

Pete I owe you everything.!!