One House and 2 Consumer units needed by LL, need help with circuits

[King84]

Hi
I have a job where customer has two families one families lives upstairs and one family will live downstairs.

As the property is going through refurbishing and rewiring is needed but LL has asked me to install two consumer units so basically divide supply using henly blocks and supply the up with one consumer unit and down with another.

As the upstairs family will have loft where there is small bathroom just light and extractor fan and room will have light and a switch and another room in loft has open small kitchen. So customer has asked me to install 6 sockets in one room of loft and 8 sockets in another . The first floor would also be part of family that lives upstairs and also have small bathroom and has 3 rooms so basically just needs standard 4/5 sockets in each room.
The family upstairs will be using basic kitchen appliances such as microwave, kettle , fridge and laundry.
There wont be any any electrical cooker or shower like that.
The same settings will go downstairs besides it has only 3 rooms and and a bath and open kitchen like above .

My question is I am abit sceptical about using 32A ring for small kitchen as I want to put rest of the loft and upstairs on one ring socket circuit but for kitchen I would be putting no cooker circuit but one radial 20 As but unsure if this is a good idea as if I put 32 A ring in kitchen too that might add too many circuits such as

Upstairs sockets 32A
Upstairs Kitchen 32A
upstairs Lights 6A
------------------
Downstairs sockets 32A
downstairs Kitchen 32A
Downstairs Lights 6A
-------------------------

so even if I do demand and diversity such as for kitchen using 30% rule that makes 16.6A for kitchen upstairs and 16.6A for kitchen downstairs and remaining 40% should look ok but I am still sceptical about whether I should install Radial 20A in the Kitchen to bring down the load or what should I do in this situation.

Has anyone else had installed 20A radial in an open small kitchen and worked well? Thanks for the help everyone

 

[westward10]

No cooker supplies this sounds all a bit dubious. What is heating the water, what about fire protection, what about heating. Three circuits for a dwelling is ridiculous.

 

[King84]

No cooker supplies this sounds all a bit dubious. What is heating the water, what about fire protection, what about heating. Three circuits for a dwelling is ridiculous.

Sorry I might have not made it clear but Cooker is supplied using gas , for heating they have gas central heating and since the Landloard wants two consumer unit, one for downstairs and one for upstairs and they have only 6 lights upstairs with a switch and sockets with open kitchen so the same settings is for downstairs and I am only worried if I add 32 A RFC in Kitchen and RFC in sockets two with 6 A lighting circuit that should do the job but same amount of Amps will be drawn for downstairs consumer unit too.

So it may seem like only 3 circuits for dwellings but in reality they are 6 circuits but just divided over two consumer units

 

[littlespark]

Certainly dubious.

2 families, 2 residences…. 2 flats really. Should have 2 supplies from DNO

If it’s a change of use between one house into 2 flats, then LABC need involved. Loft conversion? If it’s two habitable rooms, again LABC….

It sounds like the LL is trying to squeeze a lot of people into not very big space, and not spend the money to do it right.
That’s certainly how you’re making it sound.


My advice is to walk away from this one. Let someone else be a monkey for the LL.

 

[buzzlightyear]

It says your are a trainee, does LL know
You are one, and why don't he get a company it sort it out, has it been passed
Alterations to a dwalling.

 

[timhoward]

To me the bells are ringing... House of Multiple Occupation (HMO)? fire risk assessment? building regs? etc etc.
This is a difficult electrical job at the best of times and unless I was sure the landlord was doing things by the book and had a reasonable budget I'd walk away from it.

 

[King84]

Certainly dubious.

2 families, 2 residences…. 2 flats really. Should have 2 supplies from DNO

If it’s a change of use between one house into 2 flats, then LABC need involved. Loft conversion? If it’s two habitable rooms, again LABC….

It sounds like the LL is trying to squeeze a lot of people into not very big space, and not spend the money to do it right.
That’s certainly how you’re making it sound.


My advice is to walk away from this one. Let someone else be a monkey for the LL.

Thanks Littlespark, this matter has already been resolved as council told LL that he would need two supplies and upon discovering the price for another Fuse, LL decided to stick to one house.

I have another question as DNO was called at the property because there was no earthing arrangement so DNO visited the property and installed PME with 0.29ohms Ze but they disconnected the supply as I understand due to C1 the old consumer unit was in bad state and property is going through refurbishment so they asked to call them or energy supplier when final circuits are installed and new consumer unit would be installed but as contractors and builders are working at the property they would need electricity.
I understand safety comes first but isnt it DNO's job to install Link main switch instead of removing the supply completly as when new consumer unit would be installed, it would take time to call them or energy supplier to connect meter tails?
DNO has responsibility to install Cutout and leave supply atleast to the linked switch even if disconnected and I told them we could provide linked switch but they didnt.
Upon contacting energy supplier they said it could take days before it could be installed as it is not emergency.

 

[littlespark]

you would build up a temporary board, with a few sockets for workmen. have a service isolator ready for supplier to connect to, and seal up.
Then its an easy changeover when main board goes in.

 

[James]

Even on larger industrial installations, I have never managed to get a supply installed unless there is a board with at least one outgoing circuit.

The suppliers are not interested in organising a supply when there is nothing to connect to as of course they know that the usage will be Zero and after all, they are there to sell you electricity.

 

[MDJ]

No cooker supplies this sounds all a bit dubious. What is heating the water, what about fire protection, what about heating. Three circuits for a dwelling is ridiculous.

yup agree

 

[MDJ]

Sorry I might have not made it clear but Cooker is supplied using gas , for heating they have gas central heating and since the Landloard wants two consumer unit, one for downstairs and one for upstairs and they have only 6 lights upstairs with a switch and sockets with open kitchen so the same settings is for downstairs and I am only worried if I add 32 A RFC in Kitchen and RFC in sockets two with 6 A lighting circuit that should do the job but same amount of Amps will be drawn for downstairs consumer unit too.

So it may seem like only 3 circuits for dwellings but in reality they are 6 circuits but just divided over two consumer units

nah, I find that hard to believe, 3 circuits? nah sorry I don't see it

 

[brianmoooore]

Three circuits for a dwelling is ridiculous.

That's plenty. Best one I came across was a Wylex 104, fitted with a 15A rewireable, which fed the entire installation, of which, admittedly, there wasn't much.
Plumbing was in a similar vein - a relatively modern WC and a single cold water tap above a very low Belfast sink. Waste from the sink ran into a channel formed in the floor, under an outside door, and into a drain in the road.

 

[baldelectrician]

Remember - if you are doing the electrical work are you covered?

What if something goes wrong- are you insured?

On a side note- you can install sub meters after the main cut out, that way the electricity use of each property can be accurately recorded.

You need to think about fire alarms- if the alarms are on different consumer units you cannot link them using a wire. Do they need to be linked?

All these questions are now your responsability

You need to ask yourself - if the landlord is cutting corners so much now, if things go pear shaped will he throw you under the bus?

I am seeing red flags here. Personally I would be walking away

 

[vjsmarwick]

I have to agree with Baldelectrician on almost everything he says except one !
I wouldn’t be walking away I’d be running lol.
Definitely if your doing it make sure you are covered with all insurance needed and for god sake get everything in writing !
And don’t cut corners just because the LL wants it it’s your job on the line not his and never ever under do safety like RCBO’s fire alarms ! You want the people to be safe no matter what.