Overcoming the problems with working at height

[JD6400]

What access gear do others use when working at height , and how high would you deem it safe to still work from a ladder ?
Also whats the worst case of daft and dangerous behaviour that you have come across by other people working at height .:38:

 

[Spazz]

Just posted on another thread but is still relevant to this one as well



Just to clear this up - as I used to deliver training on working at heights

If you are self employed: You must ensure you are competent in using the equipment that your planning to use

If your are employed: Your employer has a duty of care and it is down to them to ensure you are competent in using the equipment that your planning to use


Only the employer (employed)/individual (S/E) can decide what training you need.


The customer can also put restrictions in place as they are the ones who are paying for the job.


The HSE will look at it and decide have you/your employer taken all possible steps to prevent this accident as far as reasonably practicable
If the employer has taken all steps and the employee has failed their duty to care for themselves then the employee is to blame

If the answer is yes then your in the clear
If the answer is no then you need to have a good reason and explain yourself to the court if required


A fine will be issued if you fail (above)


Your insurance will not pay out if you have not taken all steps as far as reasonably practicable same as in an employed and S/E basis


The best way is to do a written risk assessment and that will fine line any potential problems - also have next to the suggested actions if it is viable and if not why not - the HSE will look at this and usually clear any charges.

Just dont over look the obvious things as that wont impress the HSE and Insurance





I can provide risk assessments tailored to each individual need if required, but at a fee!

 

[Silly Sausage]

A picture speaks a thousand words. Big ladders

Gear designed for job?!? Would they need footing? I'd feel a bit precarious if they weren't.

This begs a question I've wanted to ask...Honest answers only...when doing inspections & testings with luminaires well out of arms reach (1 man on the job), how many true end of circuit Zs readings are taken?

Maybe an Arms only subject

 

[Des 56]

Just posted on another thread but is still relevant to this one as well



Just to clear this up - as I used to deliver training on working at heights

If you are self employed: You must ensure you are competent in using the equipment that your planning to use

If your are employed: Your employer has a duty of care and it is down to them to ensure you are competent in using the equipment that your planning to use


Only the employer (employed)/individual (S/E) can decide what training you need.


The customer can also put restrictions in place as they are the ones who are paying for the job.


The HSE will look at it and decide have you/your employer taken all possible steps to prevent this accident as far as reasonably practicable
If the employer has taken all steps and the employee has failed their duty to care for themselves then the employee is to blame

If the answer is yes then your in the clear
If the answer is no then you need to have a good reason and explain yourself to the court if required


A fine will be issued if you fail (above)


Your insurance will not pay out if you have not taken all steps as far as reasonably practicable same as in an employed and S/E basis


The best way is to do a written risk assessment and that will fine line any potential problems - also have next to the suggested actions if it is viable and if not why not - the HSE will look at this and usually clear any charges.

Just dont over look the obvious things as that wont impress the HSE and Insurance





I can provide risk assessments tailored to each individual need if required, but at a fee!

And then there is the real world where all this H+S comfy lounge nonsense is imagined but not practical

 

[UNG]

Just posted on another thread but is still relevant to this one as well



Just to clear this up - as I used to deliver training on working at heights

If you are self employed: You must ensure you are competent in using the equipment that your planning to use

If your are employed: Your employer has a duty of care and it is down to them to ensure you are competent in using the equipment that your planning to use


Only the employer (employed)/individual (S/E) can decide what training you need.


The customer can also put restrictions in place as they are the ones who are paying for the job.


The HSE will look at it and decide have you/your employer taken all possible steps to prevent this accident as far as reasonably practicable
If the employer has taken all steps and the employee has failed their duty to care for themselves then the employee is to blame

If the answer is yes then your in the clear
If the answer is no then you need to have a good reason and explain yourself to the court if required


A fine will be issued if you fail (above)


Your insurance will not pay out if you have not taken all steps as far as reasonably practicable same as in an employed and S/E basis


The best way is to do a written risk assessment and that will fine line any potential problems - also have next to the suggested actions if it is viable and if not why not - the HSE will look at this and usually clear any charges.

Just dont over look the obvious things as that wont impress the HSE and Insurance





I can provide risk assessments tailored to each individual need if required, but at a fee!

You neglected to mention that cost is not a consideration when deciding which access method to use

just curious what working at height training did you deliver


It is difficult to carry out a lot of tasks from a ladder safely, when I was doing a lot of radio comms work a number of years ago we used to install eye bolt sockets so we had a secure anchor point if we needed maintenance access at a later date

 

[D80]

Worst I've seen is scissor lift extended to full length, extension ladders out of that for around another 4-5M to the ceiling. Have seen and worked with others that have used tray & basket runs for their access platform, even though its 9M+ up! One missing bracket and from that height its lights out.

I've a fear of heights, that is even more the case when I'm not totally in control. Anything above what my extension ladders can reach I'd really rather not be near it. If cherry picker or scaffold supplied not so big a problem - pretty sure my Insurance is only up to 10M and felt that good enough as I have no plans to go any higher!

 

[D80]

A picture speaks a thousand words.

Why do they make the top treads on ladders if they don't expect that people will stand on them?:tounge_smile:

 

[Rockingit]

Part of what I'm currently doing in Qatar is training (very loose use of the term) the local guys in better H&S awareness and 'being an example of UK standards'. In a country where most of the manual labour is Indian/Pakistani/Malay it's a constant battle as life is cheap. Scaffolding that is warped and bent to the point that a 50' ladder would be safer, guys who can't read and have no formal training, harnesses, hi-viz or hats doing crazy things on booms and scissors. Trying to explain to someone why it's not a good idea to mix phases across the same steel work only inches apart and getting the reply 'but this is the desert, it doesn't matter' is just typical.

So before we get all caught up on the finer points of what make of step ladder is better than another, and how the HSE will do this that or the other if so-and-so is caught doing whatever, let's please all take a chill pill and remember that we have the luxury of saying this from being far higher up the evolutionary tree than many others.

I'm currently spending around 8hrs a day at approx 140' up - my safety doesn't bother me at all as I'm extremely well trained & qualified, have years of experience and all the kit. What bothers me is the turnips that will walk directly underneath me and the picker and haven't the slightest clue that I might accidentally kill them in a fraction of a second if I drop something by mistake. Or will insist in still trying to walk around and dodge the engine unit if I've no choice other than to drive it from up (happens a lot in entertainment venues). But they're just a Philipino waiter, right? There's another one waiting in the wings......

I'll take some pics during my day today and post up if I get a chance.

 

[mogga]

One of the firms I use to work for doing site temps got round the NO STEPS rule by detailed risk assesment
Hilti on pole to fix hanging chains
Cables, flexes fed in using rods where possable minimal use of steps
fitting junction boxes made off from podium steps
fittings secured at appropriate height using normal 8 tread step ladders assuming fitting max height of 3mtr
all work done out with normal site times to minimise risk of others hitting steps ( also stopped them moaning "How come they have steps and we cant")
All in all it made more sence both HnS wise as building,stripping,rebuilding introduced more risk of something being missed off scaffolding

 

[Spazz]

I am NEBOSH and IOSH

I do the general working at heights regs.

I used to train the HSE Inspectors in my local councils.


I can still deliver them now but no accreditation as its lapsed.

All working at height is the same - Safety Safety Safety




Do everything in your power and you will be fine.

A risk assessment also must include cost - as far as reasonably practicable.

If a customer is only paying you £300 to do a job which generates £100 profit for the company and a scissor lift costs £100 it is not as far as reasonably practicable to hire one in
However if it costs £25 per day and you say I need to make at least £150 on every job - apart from you not making that in the first place that is not considered as an excuse!


3 years delivering these courses to people who inspect people like ourselves who have fallen off said equipment and ladders - you pic up some stories and the outcome of them


The law states that you as the employer must do everything as far as reasonably practicable to protect those who work for you and those who may be around as a result of your work activities

IT DOES NOT STATE YOU MUST DO THIS COURSE AND THIS AND THIS

That is a recommendation (ONLY) in the approved code of practice and then they dont say you must do this and this!


Your insurance are the only ones who can say you must do a course as they are covering you - yet again you can always change insurance companies

Same goes for equipment you use.

 

[needasparks]

So when i used steps on the top of a scissor lift because it was not high enough, is a no, no then.

 

[Spazz]

If you did a risk assessment (RA) and it said that is cheaper then buying a new ladder to reach you extra meter then go for it

I am not responsible for any injury you cause to yourself or anyone else!!!!




Back to real life - NO IT BLOODY AINT!! - lol

Do the RA and take note, do I have to explain myself again?????



hehe

 

[needasparks]

I did the risk assessment and it said unless i get these high bays working now it will be dark, call me a girl but doing it by torchlight at 23mtrs up would not be fun. I'm scared of the dark.....

 

[malcolmsanford]

Many moons ago a fellow contractor called me and asked if I could give him an hand and bring my mobile tower with me. ok says I.

So gets to site it was at Kent International airport before it was that, and he was in a storage building. Job turned out to be this and that, but it appeared Siemans had installed a new fangled, CCTV system, and in them days CCTV was new fangled, and one of the cameras had failed, and was being replaced.

Any way this building must have been 20-25 metres easy and his 6x4 mobile was fully built, and never even reached half way, he had the 10mt working height platform one.

So I get I need yours Malc to extend into the apex for siemans ............so off loaded mine and off we go so now we are putting mine on top of his .................we are half way doing this and I'm now getting Squeaky B time. Builds it and there we are I reckon we are 19mts on this thing, and 19 metres is a long way, and every movement she is swaying as if in a gale. I gets down and up turns Siemans, who takes one look at this and pales, your joking we get.

After much discussions, and a few more your joking, over steps mate, "his offered us a score to change the broken camera", "as he I say". So now i'm thinking your joking ................so off we go pushing this monster over to the broken camera,Siemans gets the unit and up goes my mate ................down comes my mate and walks over to the van, where he gets out a 7 tread step ladder.

"Malc just a gnats too short, give us an hand" Up we go, this bitch is swaying like a drunk on Saturday. with us lugging up a wooden step ladder. Finally on top of this thing, and breathing is swaying this tower, mate opens up ladder and up he goes, so we are now on top of a double extened tower, me holding on for grim death, my mate is another 8-9 feet up on a step ladder, changing a camera.

We have now got us a crowd, Siemans is having a smoke and a couple of the lads are shouting up, how long lads there's an artic in any minute, I'm sort of bricking it my mate is tugging at this broken camera, and of course we are swaying back and forth.....................finally new fitted and down we come, I have never felt so relieved. Mate have a ciggie, over comes siemans, "lads this shroud needs to go over the connections" not sure if Siemans ever heard more profound language but suffice to say it never got it, and my mate never did give me half of that score

 

[JD6400]

Well Malcolm , as they say " they don't build them like they used to ! "

 

[Rockingit]

Malcolm - cheers mate, you've no idea how much I needed that laugh!