Part P investigation.

[BlueToBits]

I thought I would share this with anyone interested.

About 3 months ago I recieved a phone call from our local trading standards.
They had been contacted by a householder who was having a central heating system installed. The plumber informed her that her water supply was not correctly earthed. She told him that she had been fully rewired only a few months earlier and, after showing the certificate to the plumber he advised her to take it to Trading Standards as he incorrectly assumed that because it was written on a photocopied form it was not a legitimate certificate.

Trading standards asked me to do a PIR on the installation. There was a few defects and although the test results I recorded were very different from those on the certification they were all OK. I noticed that the water main had recently been changed. The old stop-cock was still there with a new bonding cable correctly attached to a cut pipe. It had not been moved with the pipework to the new main, hardly the fault of the electrician who did the rewire, but a code 1 defect nevertheless. I submitted the PIR as requested and heard nothing again until yesterday.

Trading standards have requested that we carry out remedial repairs on behalf of the client and it now transpires that the electrician had not notified building control of the work he carried out under Part P.

Had the water main not been upgraded the plumber would not mentioned anything to the householder and this would likely have never come to light. Apart from a few other minor defects (unmarked switch wires etc.), the quality of the installation workmanship wasn't that bad.

Because the client has a legitimate complaint and the law has been broken, building control and trading standards are obliged to investigate. The customer is now faced with a £350 bill for building control on top of my bill for carrying out remedial works. I'm pretty sure the client will be seeking re-imbursement from the electrician who is now also facing possible prosecution.
All because someone else failed to re-connect the water earth bond.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It is the person ordering the work who is responsible for notification of any work that requires notification under Building Regulations.
With Part P, as we all should know by now, this can be done by pre-notification, or by employing an electrician who is a member of a self certification scheme.
Building control would only be interested in ensuring that the work complies with the requirements for Part P, not with chasing or investigating the original electrician.
It is obvious that Trading Standards have been involved, although in what capacity is not indicated by the OP.
It could be that the customer has complained that the original electrician stated that they were Part P, or it might be that they are concerned about the quality of work.
In any event, Trading Standards have asked the OP to inspect the installation.
The OP has indicated that the work was not particuarly bad, apparently the readings the OP took differed from those on the EIC. However we do not know what those readings were, and whether the values on the EIC were measured, calculated, adjusted for temperature or perhaps obtained through enquiry.
Trading Standards have then asked the OP to rectify the defects noted in the PIR, again we don't know whether the defects were in the work covered by the EIC, or perhaps defects in the original installation.
It appears that Building Control have accepted a retrospective notification, whether they have accepted the EIC, or the PIR, or perhaps a combination of both we don't know.
I am suprised that Trading Standards asked the OP to rectify the faults, perhaps the original electrician refused for whatever reason, or perhaps they were deemed not be their responsibillity.
Unless Trading Standards can produce evidence that the original electrician was passing themselves off as Part P registered, when they were not. Or that they are Part P registered and failed to notify. There doesn't appear much for them to do.

 

[pushrod]

Good post Spin - a sensible summary. I must admit it has always been my understanding that the customer, not the contractor (if non part p), who was resposible for notification to the labc.

 

[tonys]

Not quite. It still costs to notify as required by part P The joining fee is FREE for approved contractor, don't twist it.


Agreed. Anyone can do electrical work in a domestic dwelling.

Agreed as above. Anyone can work in a domestic dwelling, but it's against the law for the installer to fail to notify LABC under part P. Wrong The approved contractor does it on completeion through their scheme, the non-approved contractor does it in advance direct to their building control department.

The same as an electrician who does not notify LABC under part P full stop. Wrong Against the law.

I disagree. Both are breaking the law because neither carries the correct documentation. The taxi driver has no licence from DVLC to drive, the contractor has no licence from LABC Wrong to carry out electrical work.
Don't take my word for it. Phone your LABC tomorrow morning, or check out this:
http://niceic.com/Uploads/File1247.pdf
where is says quite clearly:

....To comply with the law you must notify your local building control office before you begin any work and pay the appropriate fee for them to inspect the work.

Just going round in a circle.

 

[Apollo]

There are so many if's and But's in this that we just don't know.

As spinlondon has said the person ordering the work is responsible for notifying LABC, what we don't know is if the rewire was part of a bigger job. Normally one LABC notification covers everything happening during a refurb. If it was there would be no need for the Part P to be notified again - COuld have been crossed wires between the sparks and the client - Just a maybe????

Also this is another what if that we don't know - How about the spaky did notify it through his part P scheme, but they failed to notify it????? You just don't know????

 

[LukeD]

Yet more proof of the mess this trade is in. I think if everyone in this country spent a few hours reading this forum they would be shocked at hearing "our" side of the story.

 

[tonys]

Yet more proof of the mess this trade is in. I think if everyone in this country spent a few hours reading this forum they would be shocked at hearing "our" side of the story.

Its in mess mate because of the last Government and won't be undone for at least another 10 years once this recession as cleared out a lot of the unwanted people in our trade, and it will clear them out.

But unfortunately a lot of good people will get caught up in the clear out as well, though being pushed out because the semi skilled will work for less and others will leave because of struggling to find work.

 

[not clever]

I can add to this with my little tale...
I undertook a rewire last year (March/April time), the property had no gas but there was an old unused gas supply pipe in the garage near the DB so I connected 10mm bond as was required.
Tested certed & notified via NICEY all tickety boo & above board.

Fast forward to 2 weeks ago.

Get a call from home owner " Hi there I have a little concern with the electrics, I'm sure its fine but just need to check. We have just had a plumber in to install the new boiler & he said you have not done the rewire as per part P & the regulations"

Oh right & why does he think that.

"You havent fitted an earth to the gas meter & he has had to make a note of it on his paperwork"

So I took a trip there to find a nice shiney meter outside the property some 12 meters away from the old supply pipe & DB, with a new trenched supply from the road.
I showed the customer where I had put the original bond & also showed him on the cert where I'd put a note stating "no gas in property but pipe bonded in garage".
The customer then comes out with "He said I could complain to the NICEIC for you not completing the works correctly"
My next question to him was; Why had the plumber connected the boiler & undertaken the control/stat wiring when he knew (thought he knew) the bond wasnt in place? & why had he issued a MWC stating all ok?

Two week later & they still have not yet paid for the new bond I put in while there.

 

[grantr37]

The Gas Board came in and fitted a new meter for a brand new Gas supply some weeks after you had left a finished job, then the plumber came along, thought he knew about "electrics" and tried to shaft you, thats how reputations get damaged or lost, through easily confused householders being led down the garden path(quite willingly as it suits many of them) by trouble seeking others...The Gas Board should have looked after their own safety bonding but they wont do that.......whats next? you get a phonecall saying "you done a bad job I want it fixed" because a Garage company comes along and builds a nice new concrete Garage, fits a motorised Garage door and bggers off leaving the wires trailing on the floor for the motor and lights....then you get the blame........."well the postman thinks I should complain to the NICEIC,HSE,Council,Trading standards and Building control"......poor old sparky thinks "maybe I'll just do it to get him/her off my back"........theres also thousands of people out there who will get a tradesman to build them a new house off the back of a gentlemans handshake, then refuse to pay, I seen it twice already, once for a new build house and once when a woman had an extension done, when it was finished she turned round and said that she wanted all the outside doors on the house to open OUTWARDS instead of inwards, that was a no-no as it would not pass the council/building standards checks, so she refused to pay him and left him out of pocket by about 40K, it was just her way of not paying and she was not skint by any means, although thats how people hold on to their money...

 

[grantr37]

Remember to take photos of your completed jobs from now on (for household jobs) especially if you are fitting a DB or doing any work in outbuildings...if they ask why just tell them its for inspections of your paperwork that you get now and then...

 

[ukpablo]

gents, this has been one interesting post......................opened my eyes a little and i have definately learned something me thinks!

 

[millwall ken]

Do you know what fellas? I feel for the bloke that done the install... Well, in a way! He was probably doing it on the side, or the worse case is; he is a half decent mate/apprentice/labourer. Personally, if that was me, I would of asked a QUALIFIED (and I use that word, in the sense of paper- qualified) mate to do the testing and paperwork for me. Because surely he would have found it cheaper to pay someone £150-200 to sign his work off, rather than pay LABC? But thats even if he knew someone with the relevent qualifications in the first place of course...
This is why I stick to commercial.

Secondly, this is why this forum is such a great place, so that we can talk about things like this, in the first place.

 

[rocker]

Its in mess mate because of the last Government

Christ!

What did I say?

WHAT DID I SAY?!

I told you we'd agree on something one day.

I think we can apply your sentiment to the whole damn country, while we're at it.

 

[tonys]

lol and we can agree on what I should be charging