part p miss info

[thekingiam]

i live in newport not far from england, been updating website and was going to put in the new regs on part p after recieving lots of info from elecsa and niceic on how the regs are going to affect me from april. went to elecsa website and apparently wales are keeping old part p? not informed of this! so does that mean my company can sign off work in england 10 miles away?
whats the new forms?

 

[telectrix]

and what a bout mr. DIY that gets the gear from Bang and Question, and does it hisself? are they going to prosecute him? are they going to make it illegal for b&q and the like to sell to joe public? are they buggery. too much profit and greasing of palms is involved.

 

[boffy35]

One of the basic legal principles is "ignorance of the law is no defence". Mr DIY may only do it himself because he does not know that he is in fact committing a criminal offence. Why there has not been an effort in raising awareness of this by the government is a bit daft. Is it the job of the DIY stores to inform the public of the law? I don't think so.... Is it our job to take an interest in the protection of our industry? Yes I think so.


Part P is just a new section of the building regulations made law in 2005, it is compulsory to all, including Mr DIY. To be Part P approved you have to prove competence, if you are not registered you have to prove competence to Building control prior to work starting. Simple really.


Is it in the public interest to prosecute Mr DIY?.... Absolutely..... if it raises awareness of what is legal and what is not
Is it in the public interest to prosecute an electrician for not notifying?....even more so....I really can't believe the arrogance and ignorance when meeting some of my fellow electricians when they state that Part P doesn't apply to them as they are "qualified", or moan that Part P is taking work from them as anyone can do domestic now, or I'm not getting approved as it doesn't give me anything.


I have a different view.


The first stage is for us to protect our industry, I am pretty tired of hearing that "no-one else is doing anything" the buck stops here, this is my industry, I will do what I can to protect it. Is Part P of the building regs perfect? No...nowhere near, but it is a start and we should all support it not harp on about it.


Part P registration is expensive, and the regulations are pretty poor especially now in England, but it is a start and maybe we should all be supporting it not slagging it.


It could and should become the old corgi equivalent for our industry

 

[trev]

I live near Newcastle and that Able Electrical was not publicised at all. The only one I've seen is a mate left a company and stole a load of NIC test sheets and was passing himself off as a registered spark. He got done for fraud, no mention of the trail of devastation he left in his wake.

 

[telectrix]

but what should be and what is don't match. you have missed my point. being qualified and competent, i can do a complete install on a new-build, extension, etc., just by forwarding a copy of my EIC to BC., but as i am no longer paying dues to a leech scam company, i am not legally allowed to fit a bathroom fan. you tell me where the sense is in that.

 

[boffy35]

Hi, in your example the builder is taking the risk regarding compliance with the building regulations and not you. The builder has to satisfy that the extension complies with all parts of the building regulations, including Part P.


If the works are already covered by a notifiable job, then the EIC becomes part of the process. It does not prove competence or compliance. The builder, in signing off his work is effectively signing off the work of the electrician.


If the works are not part of an existing notifiable job, then since 2005 we have to notify electrical work in special locations or new additions. It is the same process in both of your examples, both have to be notified.


The builder takes a chance if the electrician has not had his competence "proven" by being Part P approved by a trade body. It becomes teh builders responsibility by accepting work from an electrician without Part P approval. If he uses a Part P approved electrician he can quite rightly state that the "experts" have declared competency and his arse is well and truly covered. If he chooses someone else without the approval he pays his money and he takes his chance. He may not realise the buck, initially at least, stops with him, not the electrician and an EIC does nothing to cover him against a Part P breach.

 

[Guitarist]

The first stage is for us to protect our industry, I am pretty tired of hearing that "no-one else is doing anything" the buck stops here, this is my industry, I will do what I can to protect it. Is Part P of the building regs perfect? No...nowhere near, but it is a start and we should all support it not harp on about it.

y

I totally agree that something needs doing, but when I asked my LBC to maybe put an article in their own newsletter, or in the local free times, regarding Part P and householders' responsibilities, I was told in no uncertain terms that we are no different to any other trade and it's really not their problem. Until all the Councils are singing from the same sheet, it will be hit-and-miss who gets warned/prosecuted and who doesn't.
It seems that many LBC's simply don't want to know.
Also, I wrote to my MP regarding the problems with supply isolation/fuse-pulling (how some people cut seals and some, myself included, don't), which was then forwarded elsewhere, and eventually I was told that it's all fine and dandy and nothing needs to change!

So, in reply to your statement, many of us do try to get things changed, but to no avail. That's why we come on here and moan.

 

[Geoffsd]

And why have they just relaxed the notification rules so that NO kitchen fitters now need to be registered?

Some may think lobbying from big companies but I couldn't possibly comment.

 

[telectrix]

they do if installing a new circuit. . still, means there will be more crappy cowboy installs than before.

 

[Geoffsd]

There won't be any NEW circuits then, will there?

 

[ian.settle1]

Don't they complicate things why not keep it simple

Don't be silly the more the government can confuse people the more money they can make.

 

[ian.settle1]

how can you say that part p makes things safer, when these fast-track courses are churning out domestic installers with hardly any knowledge, except how to part with cash and comply with part p, while not having a clue what they are doing. scrap part p and make it illegal for unqualified persons to install anything more lethal than batteries in a remote control.

With the calibre of some off the questions being asked on here I have to totally agree as some asked are basic questions which the op should know if they are qualified like they say they are.