Part p punishment?????

[mickytuff]

Anybody bein caught, and convicted of carrying out notifyable work without notifying building control, i dont mean cowboys, i mean fully qualified electricians who took the chance, just wondered whether this law since 2005 has strung anybody up

 

[malcolmsanford]

malcolm,. i was being a bit facetious there. point being, there are democratic ways of changing bad laws, but i don't see anybody trying to change anything.

Don't you just love a good debate mate. I totally agree we are apathectic it's the British way and I suppose it always will be until something riles us enough to change things.

A few disgruntled electricians will not change a law. I tried that in the 80's with the coal mines and lost that and then the government destroyed whole communities.

 

[gpz900jim]

isnt part p a step forward from what used to be in place? Before part p came along, anyone could legally do electrical work as long as they were "competent" But competent was just a word without definition. At least now, people who do electrical work have to prove their competence to a regulatory body. How can that not be progress. ?? Re cowboys doing unregistered /dangerous work. The law is in place to catch them and punish them, and the fear of getting caught and punished means there are far fewer cowboys around than there might be. Before part p came along, the quality of some work i saw was atrocious. Builders would put electrics into their extensions themselves with pretty much no regard for anything as they knew that no one would look at it. Everyone and anyone did the electrics for builders. But since electrical work has come under the building controls responsibility with part p, all of that has changed. Builders need that certificate to get their development signed off, so they have no choice but employ a registered electrician. Please anyone, explain to me why they think the situation we have now is worse than the one we had before? Part P is good, part P works okay, I think they got it right.

 

[Matty o]

Part P doesn't work
The only people i have come across that take any notice is the good electricians who are being priced out of work by non registered people.

Until the public are educated and people are prosecuted (both the person doing the work and owners) or the insurance company's get involved it will not change.

Personally i think it should be made clearer and all electrical work can only be carried out by register tradesman domestic and non domistic this would bring it in line with gas-safe and every one would know where they stand.

 

[saveloy]

Scrap Part P in its entirety
Remove LABC involvement totally. They are clueless and don't want to know
Bring in one single organization to regulate electrical work Ie Gas safe/Corgi type. A NON PROFIT making organisation.
Make it illegal to carry out electrical work unless registered.
As it stands at the moment, the only law being broken is a building regulation. Who polices Building Regs? The LABC. Do they prosecute non notifyers? If not then why should I care about notifying them in the first place?
Get rid of 3 or 4 different organisations charging exorbitant fees. This is about peoples safety FFS, not making money. Gassafe charge around £175 +vat IIRC. Fees of £400+ must have a major influence on electricians decisions to register.
How is it that all schemes charge the same rate? A cynical person may conclude that there is price fixing going on!
How do they justify fees of £400+ when Gassafe are just over £200?

 

[Des 56]

Have a look at this from 2007.

More Part P Prosecutions | Latest news | Electrical Safety Council.

At least some got found but this isn't even the tip of the iceberge.

Again though Paul.each of those 3 cases from a few years ago, were for dangerous or non compliant installations,even then the builder, who was fined, was given the opportunity to put it right instead of going to court

To my knowlege there has not been 1 prosecution where the installation was up to standard, with the prosecution being for not notifying Labc

To my knowlege ytl

 

[gpz900jim]

If work is carried out that is not up to scratch, thats a criminal offence already. I dont know why the fees are as they are, maybe that needs to be looked at, maybe they are colluding in some way. But 400 pounds? for registration for a whole year? not even a tenner a week?Thats nothing compared to what you can earn in a year when you are properly registered with your logo splashed all over your van. Building control is already there, why not use them instead of having another organisation in place. Part p is part of the building regulations, so it makes sense for them to oversee it. Anyway, you dont have to have any dealings with building control do you? They just collect the documentation from your self certified work. What could be easier?

 

[Des 56]

isnt part p a step forward from what used to be in place? Before part p came along, anyone could legally do electrical work as long as they were "competent" But competent was just a word without definition. At least now, people who do electrical work have to prove their competence to a regulatory body. How can that not be progress. ?? Re cowboys doing unregistered /dangerous work. The law is in place to catch them and punish them, and the fear of getting caught and punished means there are far fewer cowboys around than there might be. Before part p came along, the quality of some work i saw was atrocious. Builders would put electrics into their extensions themselves with pretty much no regard for anything as they knew that no one would look at it. Everyone and anyone did the electrics for builders. But since electrical work has come under the building controls responsibility with part p, all of that has changed. Builders need that certificate to get their development signed off, so they have no choice but employ a registered electrician. Please anyone, explain to me why they think the situation we have now is worse than the one we had before? Part P is good, part P works okay, I think they got it right.

Part p has forced electricians, who have spent years on low money, training to become competent and qualified,to suddenly find that they now have to pay to be able to continue practicing their own studied trade
Part p is for a limited amount of electrics in domestic installation,parts which are notifyable and parts which are not

Diy work is permitted, although hardly any of the diyers would know which parts

Sparks who carry out more complex installation work in other sectors, suddenly found unless they paid money to a scheme,they couldn't do simple domestic installation
At the same time whilst these qualifed sparks were being excluded from domestic work,fast track courses enabled less competent people to operate where the sparks were excluded

Defined scope registration has meant that plumbers and kitchen fitters etc, now have
registration to do work that was once carried out by the qualified spark

Most of these new defined scope registrants exceed the scope of their work, and do full rewiring etc, because there is no control on what they notify
They have their logos on their vans, and now account for a tremendous amount of installation work, which was formerly done by qualified sparks

Part p, far from being a good thing, is an atrocious piece of knee jerk reaction by politicians, that is decimating the domestic sector for electrician, and at the same time giving greater opportunuity for sub standard work to flourish by installations being carried out by these not so competent plumbers,kitchen fitters tilers and uncle Tom Cobbly and all

The sooner it goes, the less the damage (which has already been done) to our trade and it cant come soon enough

Its got to go down as probably the most pathetic ill thought out piece of nonesense to affect any trade in any industry, and thats being kind to the fiasco

I wont judge how long you have been in the trade, only that your perspective of part p
differs tremendously to my own opinion ,perhaps some of the newer sparks, who have been introduced into this way of working ,may have other opinions to mine

 

[telectrix]

well, Des. talk about hitting the nail on the head, you have just driven a 6 inch nail through armour plate.

 

[gpz900jim]

i stand by what ive said, the current situation is an improvement on what was before. I wonder if a lot of the complaining is because there is more competition for domestic work now? you just have to be more competitive. The world is changing all of the time. Adapt, or whats the alternative, stand on the sidelines and winge

 

[Des 56]

Then I am sorry to say,but you have a completely different assessment of standards than I
I have never been short of work to concern myself with whether I am competetive or not,so thats irrelevant
I am thankfull that I do not have to compete with the sub standard sparks who now frequent this trade
Yes the world is changing,that change could have been in a posive direction,but unfortunately thats not so

I only hope for the sake of all trained sparks who have invested so heavily in this trade, that the time wont be long before common sense means the government becomes fully aware of the damage that has been done, and rectifies the situation post haste

In all fairness to this government,they seem to have concluded that standards have plummeted and recognise by their proposals for all sparks to be at least nvq level 3 qualifed, that the pretend versions ie the plumbers tilers etc will cease to be able to continue making an abomination of our trade

 

[telectrix]

i stand by what ive said, the current situation is an improvement on what was before. I wonder if a lot of the complaining is because there is more competition for domestic work now? you just have to be more competitive. The world is changing all of the time. Adapt, or whats the alternative, stand on the sidelines and winge[/QU

is it an improvement though.? it's not a problem competing on a level field where everyone works to the same rules. don't dispute that. the problem is that although part p outlaws cowboy work to a certain extent, it does nothing to stop it, it allows the sheds to sell consumer units, MCBs, cable, etc. to joe public, only prosecutes after some shoddy work has caused fire/injury/death. the more costs we have piled on us, the more we have to charge, ergo, the less we can compete.

 

[tonys]

Don't forget about the fellow scheme members who put a cert on some elses job for a few quid.

Do they give a ---- about other paying members, no because they encourage unqualified workers

That's another form of law breaking

So lets not get to side tracked with the people who won't join but wish to earn a living and entitled to do so because they are qualified, but not prepared to feed lazy barstewards.

 

[gpz900jim]

By "sub standard sparks" do you mean those so called five day wonders that people seem so happy to poke sticks at on this site? Could I ask you for some proof of what you say? where is there any proof that five day wonders are sub standard? Or that they produce poor quality work. It seems that you think that anyone who has not done a traditional apprenticeship must be rubbish. Who knows, maybe their work is better than yours, you just dont know, you jump to conclusions. Maybe you dont like domestic installers because they have upset the status quo? And if thats the case, why dont you say so instead of inventing spurious arguments that you cant back up with facts. As you may have realised by now, Im a five day wonder, and im very proud of the work I do, and resent prejudiced comments that cast me and others in a bad light. Domestic installers such as I are legally entitled to work in the electrical installation industry, I work hard to support my family with the skills that I have. It just gets me down to be rubbished by people who make ill considered comments. Are there any other five day wonders who feel the same way as I ?

 

[telectrix]

By "sub standard sparks" do you mean those so called five day wonders that people seem so happy to poke sticks at on this site? Could I ask you for some proof of what you say? where is there any proof that five day wonders are sub standard? Or that they produce poor quality work. It seems that you think that anyone who has not done a traditional apprenticeship must be rubbish. Who knows, maybe their work is better than yours, you just dont know, you jump to conclusions. Maybe you dont like domestic installers because they have upset the status quo? And if thats the case, why dont you say so instead of inventing spurious arguments that you cant back up with facts. As you may have realised by now, Im a five day wonder, and im very proud of the work I do, and resent prejudiced comments that cast me and others in a bad light. Domestic installers such as I are legally entitled to work in the electrical installation industry, I work hard to support my family with the skills that I have. It just gets me down to be rubbished by people who make ill considered comments. Are there any other five day wonders who feel the same way as I ?

personally i would never rubbish so called 5 day wonders. for anyone over the age of 20, with coimmitments, it's often the only way to get a qualification. however, i think the main gripes are against guys that have done these fast track courses and have little or no practical experience. from what you say, you obviously consider yourself experienced and can do satisfactory work, then all credit to you.

 

[gpz900jim]

Yes you are right. It is the only way in for some, Im 51 and have 20 years of experience in domestic electrical installation prior to the introduction of part p, but no formal qualifications. Not having been in an educational environment for many years, I did not have the confidence to take the part p course until last year. So thats how I came to be where I am now. a so called "five day wonder" part pee .