Part P & the 17th Edition.

[Spudnik]

Rumour has it that Part P and the 17th edition regulations are in for a substantial review very soon, hinting at, amongst other things, the revision of RCD's on everything, and the possibility of a competent persons register held at the LABC, rather than Part P.

So, if you were given the option of having your say, (not that it will happen), what would you change in the CURRENT regs?

 

[saveloy]

I think the LABC should have LESS involvement not more. I have had nothing but aggro with my LABC. On 2 jobs that I notified to NIC I have also had to send copies of Part P certs and EIC to the LABC because they claim that they have not been notified by NIC!! ******* useless. Just bring in a "corgi" type scheme and be done with it!

 

[sparks72]

I think the LABC should have LESS involvement not more. I have had nothing but aggro with my LABC. On 2 jobs that I notified to NIC I have also had to send copies of Part P certs and EIC to the LABC because they claim that they have not been notified by NIC!! ******* useless. Just bring in a "corgi" type scheme and be done with it!

I had the same experience, my local LABC said it took 6 weeks for the NICEIC to notify them of my work,
now I just send builing control my certs by email, (saves me £1.50)

On topic I would ditch part "pee" altogether, when your undercut by every tom dick & harry & pay
over £3000 to middlemen before the work comes in I can honestly say part "p" is a massive failure (does anyone actually police it !!)

 

[dangerous dave]

Hi all,ive completed 2330 level 3+17th edition and iv'e got 2391 booked for next month,Do i need to do part P to do my own work ie domestic rewires and the like or can i just let building controll know what my plans are on the job and send in my certs.Thankyou for any reply's.

 

[kung]

Hi Dave
You can notify LABC but they will charge the full est £140 as your not a member of a self cert scheme such as NICEIC/NAPIT/ELECSA etc best way is contact a scheme provider and pay the £££s and get your competence assessed then when youre deemed competent you will pass the onsite assessment and be able to self certify your work ! you wont need the domestic installers with some but will have to work and comply with part p ! best way is go onto there websites and check out the domestic installers scheme requirements !
Regards
Kung.

Hi Jason
my change is more with scheme providers than regs but the yearly subs are a lot of dosh if you ent had much work together with all other exp's cals, insurance's etc etc etc its alot to find ! think it should be alot cheaper and cut the cost to us so we can compete a bit more with cowboys and pub man etc that is what we all want to stamp out isnt it ? so mine is a revamp on our yearly costs and more or should i say a POLICING system in place to stamp them out !
Regards
Kung.

 

[sparks72]

Hi Dave
so mine is a revamp on our yearly costs and more or should i say a POLICING system in place to stamp them out !
Regards
Kung.

The problem is that the scheme providers are only interested in the money
& couldn't give a monkeys about cowboys, the NICEIC had to go begging
to T.V. bosses for free part "pee" adverts, has anyone seen them since it all started......errrr no!
it's a joke, I saw one advert at 4 in the morning 2 years ago, we've been had by the middlemen again

 

[saveloy]

Hi Jason
my change is more with scheme providers than regs but the yearly subs are a lot of dosh if you ent had much work together with all other exp's cals, insurance's etc etc etc its alot to find ! think it should be alot cheaper and cut the cost to us so we can compete a bit more with cowboys and pub man etc that is what we all want to stamp out isnt it ? so mine is a revamp on our yearly costs and more or should i say a POLICING system in place to stamp them out !
Regards
Kung.

This describes the problem in my mind. There is no policing system. Has anyone actually ever been prosecuted for non compliance with part P? I have heard of prosecutions for dangerous electrical work but what about non notification of notifable work?
The problem as I see it is Part P has been forced on both electricians AND LABC. We don't want it and LABC have enough to do without the endless hassle of Part P. There is no deterrent against the non notification of work, apart from the fact that you may have a problem selling your house without a relevant Part P cert. There needs to be a single body, and it made illegal for non members to carry out electrical work.

 

[sparks72]

This describes the problem in my mind. There is no policing system. Has anyone actually ever been prosecuted for non compliance with part P? I have heard of prosecutions for dangerous electrical work but what about non notification of notifable work?
The problem as I see it is Part P has been forced on both electricians AND LABC. We don't want it and LABC have enough to do without the endless hassle of Part P. There is no deterrent against the non notification of work, apart from the fact that you may have a problem selling your house without a relevant Part P cert. There needs to be a single body, and it made illegal for non members to carry out electrical work.

I hear even the LABC have had enough!
Part "pee" is a failure simple as that.
the only purpose it serves is a paper trail back to the Inland Revenue,
apparently we make a fortune & stuff all the money in our pillows

 

[kung]

Agree ! the problem isnt helped also as a couple of mths ago i was at my local B & Q store when i overheard the (NOTED ELECTRICAL SPECIALIST) STAFF telling this young couple how to install the new shower without a mention of tests/certs/part p etc then how to install a new CU ! ive mentioned this before and ticks me off when i hear DIY shop workers telling customers how to do the work ! one way of policing it would be to only let qualified sparks & registerd installers only buy CU's and other electrical items as its not helping the cause and fight against DIY etc electrical installs.
Regards
Kung.

 

[bluesparky]

I hear even the LABC have had enough!
Part "pee" is a failure simple as that.
the only purpose it serves is a paper trail back to the Inland Revenue,
apparently we make a fortune & stuff all the money in our pillows

What do you mean what has part p got to do with the taxman?

 

[dangerous dave]

cheers kung thats been a great help mate cos nobody likes throwing money away do they.And as for cowboys i did a job for a neighbour the other day who had cross polarity all through downstairs and told me someone else did it.So i tested it out and took every socket off and checked but then he tells me he did it when he did the extention and took the feed from one of the front room sockets,and to top that the idiot had run kitchen power as a radial using flex.how an earth are we to try and earn a living with idiots like this about.

 

[yido81]

well surley if it wernt for that idiot, you wouldnt of got the job to correct it, so you've got some work out of it!! keep up the ****e work i say, i like a challenge

 

[mazdaman]

Rumour has it that Part P and the 17th edition regulations are in for a substantial review very soon, hinting at, amongst other things, the revision of RCD's on everything, and the possibility of a competent persons register held at the LABC, rather than Part P.

So, if you were given the option of having your say, (not that it will happen), what would you change in the CURRENT regs?

The LABC register is at Local Authority Building Control - SEARCH RESULTS

It tell's you who a company is registered with.

As regards Part P.

Part of the home sellers pack HIP is to provide an electrical certificate or PIR. If the cert shows a rewire that has not been notified, or any other notifiable work to LABC, this could come as a 'shock' to a lot of 'sparks' when the buyers solicitor's un 'earths' in their local searches that the works have not been notified.

 

[UNG]

What do you mean what has part p got to do with the taxman?

Part P provides a paper trail that the taxman could use to cross check your accounts or find out if you are part of the black economy


My opinion is that the whole of the electrical industry should have a Corgi / GasSafe type scheme.

The discrimination between industrial / commercial installations and domestic installations in Part P is what makes it a joke.

Part P = Political knee jerk reaction to a politicians getting a fatal electric shock after having a new kitchen fitted, that is why it is not working. How can you produce a law that says a spark can fit out commercial kitchens without hinderance but can't fit out a domestic kitchen unless he notifies building control or is a member of a scheme

As I have said before I have seen work carried out by a Part P spark and accepted by building control, and it didn't comply with the regs!

The revision it needs is remove the need for notification / scheme membership but keep the Part P document as the legal guidance for compliance with BS7671, and introduce a registration system for electricians similar to the gas fitters system

 

[Graeme Harrold]

The LABC register is at Local Authority Building Control - SEARCH RESULTS

It tell's you who a company is registered with.

As regards Part P.

Part of the home sellers pack HIP is to provide an electrical certificate or PIR. If the cert shows a rewire that has not been notified, or any other notifiable work to LABC, this could come as a 'shock' to a lot of 'sparks' when the buyers solicitor's un 'earths' in their local searches that the works have not been notified.

Only think the HIP does a search of the docs held by LABC and does not do any comparrison with the property in question, so therefore completely worthless, just like the HIP. Its a half arsed idea that was not implemented correctly. Is Ive mentioned in another thread, the only people who could enforce much of the regulations, inspections etc are the insurance companies.

With all the publoc sector cuts, councils do not have the resources to police Part P, and as everyone seems to agree, the scheme providers just want the money!!!!

So back to the original question....Incorporate kitchens in as a special location and get rid of the confision!!!!
Advance warning of RCBO's may drive down the price of them DOWN.
Change the inspection intervals from recommended to mandatory thus removing the element of descretion (which the client takes to the maximum)

1 single register for competance, not the multitude of schemes now, and all paperwork direct to them. LABC dont really need it!!!!