PAT Testing - Is it essential.

[plodder1]

We get many calls asking if we are having our devices tested annually. We do not currently have PAT testing done. Is it essential that we do as a small business.? Can anyone advise what the purpose of this is as we have been a family business established over 40 years and never had this done. What are the implications if we don't have it done?

 

[SparkyChick]

You're obliged under Electricity at Work Regulations (I believe, someone will correct me if I'm wrong I'm sure) to ensure the safety of your staff and members of the public who enter your premises.

A PAT testing regime can help demonstrate you're fulfilling your duties by ensuring the portable equipment is safe for continued use. Without PAT testing records, if the unthinkable happened and someone was injured or killed as a result of an electrical fault, it could be argued that you've been negligent.

The same goes for the fixed wiring and equipment of any premises you're responsible for where business is conducted. This is why it is recommended that you have an electrical installation condition report produced periodically (the recommended periods vary depending on the type and use of the premises).

 

[Shane Mullan]

It is only advised/recommended. You could perform visual inspections yourself to evidence that you are 'maintaining electrical systems'. Visual inspections will find 90% of problems anyway. Just make sure you keep a log. Obviously if it's a high risk area where items and cables can get damaged then it might be different

 

[littlespark]

If you go ahead and get your appliances tested, get some quotes in. The cheapest may not be the best, however. There are unscrupulous companies out there that just take your money and sticker-pass everything. Even the visually obvious things like unsuitable plug tops, wrong size fuses and frayed flexes.

 

[westward10]

There is no legal requirement to PATest. You must however abide by the following;
Health & Safety at Work Act 1974
The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989
The Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998
The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999
Failure to comply with any of the above can result in hefty fines should the worst happen. One way to ensure some compliance is to PATest. The H&S website gives further advice.

 

[Octopus]

Every year is OTT .............. but some scam PAT testers state its a requirement ........ which it isn't

 

[telectrix]

@ OP.you have a duty of care to ensure that your premises are a safe environment for you, your staff, and your customers. part of this is safe operation of electrical equipment. PAT testing , although not mandatory, is one way of ensuring that appliances are safe to use. however, this testing should be done by a reputable company and proper records kept, not by the 50p/item sticker brigade, where their monkeys' incompetence will come back to bite your arse as you are the ultimate person responsible.

 

[sham]

I would of thought that insurance companies would ask for evidence of pat testing. So therefore necessary.

 

[pirate]

It's up to the responsible person to determine the PAT schedule...but few office managers can determine this correctly, thus the scam-mongers tell you it has to be every 12 months...which is rubbish. Each item has to be assessed for frequency of testing. Sticker-boys are scammers. Get a proper professional in to A) tell you what needs tested, and how often
and
B)do the tests.

 

[grantr37]

Nobody pat tests any more, the big hotel chains don't even do it, every penny is a prisoner and a profit

 

[westward10]

What, nobody?

 

[Pete999]

Nobody pat tests any more, the big hotel chains don't even do it, every penny is a prisoner and a profit

Until some one gets a belt, and then watch the --- covering come into overdrive

 

[littlespark]

What, nobody?

I can vouch for that. Was in a Holiday Inn Express last night for wifes birthday in Newcastle. There was a desk fan in the room, (no AC), and I noticed there wasn't a sticker on it.

 

[westward10]

So nobody PATests anymore.

 

[Pete999]

I can vouch for that. Was in a Holiday Inn Express last night for wifes birthday in Newcastle. There was a desk fan in the room, (no AC), and I noticed there wasn't a sticker on it.

Probably means the sticker guy missed that one, or the receptionist had brought the fan from home.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Just about every site I work on requires equipment to have a PAT sticker on it dated within the last 3 months.
The site I’m on now, we have to put stickers and record the details of sub contractors’ equipment.

 

[westward10]

Odd apparently no one does it anymore.

 

[Moley]

Nobody pat tests any more, the big hotel chains don't even do it, every penny is a prisoner and a profit

I stay most weeks at either PremierInn or BestWestern hotels. At every one I go to I check the PAT labels (yes, I lead a sad life) and all I've seen have been up to date. All the tools on our vans have to have an up to date PAT record before we can use them on site.

 

[grantr37]

I can vouch for that. Was in a Holiday Inn Express last night for wifes birthday in Newcastle. There was a desk fan in the room, (no AC), and I noticed there wasn't a sticker on it.

Have stayed weekends in about 20 hotels around the UK in the last 2 years and not seen one single pat testing sticker, only place you see them now is on shop tills by the big facilities management companies that have probably mostly been green stickered without checking.

 

[Pete999]

How often do you check your own personal Power Consuming Equipment at home? Unfortunately thats how a lot of big concerns act, not something that many of them worry about, leave it alone until someone gets hurt and then you may get another Grenfell, blame flying in all directions.

 

[Toneyz]

How long from new do you suggest until the first test in a domestic setting as it was on Watchdog regarding new appliances catching fire? The question would be regarding Grenfell is what caused that appliance in the flat to catch fire would PAT testing prevented it. Most of us on here are competent electricians how often do we inspect and PATtest our own equipment apart from when we have to by the building contractors. Post 5 and 9 sums the OP's answer.

 

[Pete999]

How long from new do you suggest until the first test in a domestic setting as it was on Watchdog regarding new appliances catching fire? The question would be regarding Grenfell is what caused that appliance in the flat to catch fire would PAT testing prevented it.

It would have highlighted any fault if carried out by a competent Tester

 

[pirate]

Just a mini-update here.
Today I carried out PAT on all the electrical tools and other equipment currently in use in our Men's Shed charity building.
4 relatively new power drills/grinders were fine. The main extension lead which powered the 2 most essential appliances, the kettle and fridge, was a Fail due to 3 abrasions on the cable, of exactly the type you would expect to find on an extension lead in use by many users who have little regard for safety.
2 other tools, a sander and a reciprocating saw, were potential fails due to incorrect fuse size and poor termination in the plugs...one was a Spanish import with odd cable colours, and a UK plug retro-fitted. I replaced the fuses, and re-terminated the plugs in those.
3 other items simply had 13A fuses where 3A would have been appropriate, and interestingly, 2 older drills had, correctly, 5A fuses, to allow for initial start-up loads.
In summary, a high proportion were Fail or potential Fail, but as the remedial work was minor, that was carried out.
I mentioned in a previous post about testing schedules. We have all seen the "guidelines" but frankly, in this present situation, with multiple users of tools that are not their own, and varying levels of skill in deployment of those tools, a 12 monthly test on the fridge and radio may be ok, but I am looking at weekly tests for handheld, high-risk gear and FVI daily on some. It's not mandatory, but a system has to be in place, and with this setup, and the likely users, I believe a very strict regime is required. So, is PAT essential?
I believe it is, and must be tailored closely to the circumstances if it is to be meaningful and effective.
Just for the sticker-jockeys out there, I tested 14 items before I took a lunch break, and that, including swapping fuses etc, took me 2 hours...it takes quite a few minutes to check the full length of a 10 or 15m extension reel with 4 outlets! Yes, I am slow...there's no money in doing it properly, unless the cash is incidental, and no, I didn't do a Risk Assessment every time I climbed a ladder.

 

[JK-Electrical]

Portable appliance testing is compulsory for properties in Scotland that are privately let, and has been for a number of years. Any appliances that are supplied as part of a tenancy agreement MUST be tested, no ifs or buts. This is required to be done in conjunction with an EICR prior to the commencement of the tenancy. The landlord is required by law to supply copies of the EICR and PA test certificate to the tenant(s).

There is no statutory guidance as to the frequency of subsequent PA testing/ I reccomend that it be done at five-year intervals so that it runs concurrent with the expiry of the EICR and can be done at the same that the installation is due for its next inspection and testing.

 

[pirate]

Good points there JK! However, I must beg to differ on a minor point...PAT is not compulsory on residential lettings, however evidence that all appliances in a rental property are safe IS mandatory...and so, PAT is the easiest way of proving this. If you have provided all brand new appliances for the first rental, PAT is inappropriate, or at least optional, provided you can evidence the position.
Also, as you rightly say, EICR is indeed compulsory in rentals...I believe Scotland leads the way here.
For those of you unfamiliar with the Scottish system, the following are mandatory when letting out a property:
1. EICR
2. Gas safety certificate (where appropriate)
3. EPC
4. Evidence of safety of portable appliances (PAT is the easiest way)
5. Tenant Information Pack (now superseded, but incorporated in the new PRS rental agreement)
6. Landlord Registration Certificate
7. Lodging of deposit in an approved deposit scheme (fine of up to 2 months rental if not lodged within 30 days)
8. Mains-wired, interlinked smoke/heat alarms, for each hall, main circulation area, kitchen (recent government decision, not yet law, will allow 10 year LiIon battery powered units, linked by radio module, so mains/hard wiring will not be essential...and a good thing too!)
9. Approved emergency call-out telephone numbers for the Factors/building maintenance crew
10. Landlords have to verify Tenant status, ID, Money Laundering, and ...just about to be law...Landlords must verify Tenant's right of abode in UK.

I did this sh*t for years...it just got harder and harder, but all my Landlords complied or I dropped them...

And, every January, I had to send a complete list of every Landlord I represented, every property they had, every rental and deposit they received...several days work, for no pay...

and I am glad I do pro bono for charity now!

Talking of which, the scenario of private sector rental (PRS) vs charity Men's Shed is quite a contrast, and so if I didn't make it clear earlier, I can't schedule PAT every 1.2.3.4 or 5 years, because the needs of the users are changing daily, as some have good skills, some have no skills but want to learn, some have skills they have forgotten/lost, and some have health problems that make daily routines arduous. So, as I said, we need tailored PAT for the regime in question. I manage several rentals, and do I PAT the fridge every year? No, of course not...but my local hairdresser, who is very safety-conscious (unusually!) wants his dryers tested weekly as they are hand-held appliances, in use by many and varied people...either he pays me a modest sum to test out of hours on a Monday, or he replaces them...bet not too many of those guys about!