PAT Testing - Is it essential.

[Deleted member 26818]

Just about every site I work on requires equipment to have a PAT sticker on it dated within the last 3 months.
The site I’m on now, we have to put stickers and record the details of sub contractors’ equipment.

 

[westward10]

Odd apparently no one does it anymore.

 

[Moley]

Nobody pat tests any more, the big hotel chains don't even do it, every penny is a prisoner and a profit

I stay most weeks at either PremierInn or BestWestern hotels. At every one I go to I check the PAT labels (yes, I lead a sad life) and all I've seen have been up to date. All the tools on our vans have to have an up to date PAT record before we can use them on site.

 

[grantr37]

I can vouch for that. Was in a Holiday Inn Express last night for wifes birthday in Newcastle. There was a desk fan in the room, (no AC), and I noticed there wasn't a sticker on it.

Have stayed weekends in about 20 hotels around the UK in the last 2 years and not seen one single pat testing sticker, only place you see them now is on shop tills by the big facilities management companies that have probably mostly been green stickered without checking.

 

[Pete999]

How often do you check your own personal Power Consuming Equipment at home? Unfortunately thats how a lot of big concerns act, not something that many of them worry about, leave it alone until someone gets hurt and then you may get another Grenfell, blame flying in all directions.

 

[Toneyz]

How long from new do you suggest until the first test in a domestic setting as it was on Watchdog regarding new appliances catching fire? The question would be regarding Grenfell is what caused that appliance in the flat to catch fire would PAT testing prevented it. Most of us on here are competent electricians how often do we inspect and PATtest our own equipment apart from when we have to by the building contractors. Post 5 and 9 sums the OP's answer.

 

[Pete999]

How long from new do you suggest until the first test in a domestic setting as it was on Watchdog regarding new appliances catching fire? The question would be regarding Grenfell is what caused that appliance in the flat to catch fire would PAT testing prevented it.

It would have highlighted any fault if carried out by a competent Tester

 

[pirate]

Just a mini-update here.
Today I carried out PAT on all the electrical tools and other equipment currently in use in our Men's Shed charity building.
4 relatively new power drills/grinders were fine. The main extension lead which powered the 2 most essential appliances, the kettle and fridge, was a Fail due to 3 abrasions on the cable, of exactly the type you would expect to find on an extension lead in use by many users who have little regard for safety.
2 other tools, a sander and a reciprocating saw, were potential fails due to incorrect fuse size and poor termination in the plugs...one was a Spanish import with odd cable colours, and a UK plug retro-fitted. I replaced the fuses, and re-terminated the plugs in those.
3 other items simply had 13A fuses where 3A would have been appropriate, and interestingly, 2 older drills had, correctly, 5A fuses, to allow for initial start-up loads.
In summary, a high proportion were Fail or potential Fail, but as the remedial work was minor, that was carried out.
I mentioned in a previous post about testing schedules. We have all seen the "guidelines" but frankly, in this present situation, with multiple users of tools that are not their own, and varying levels of skill in deployment of those tools, a 12 monthly test on the fridge and radio may be ok, but I am looking at weekly tests for handheld, high-risk gear and FVI daily on some. It's not mandatory, but a system has to be in place, and with this setup, and the likely users, I believe a very strict regime is required. So, is PAT essential?
I believe it is, and must be tailored closely to the circumstances if it is to be meaningful and effective.
Just for the sticker-jockeys out there, I tested 14 items before I took a lunch break, and that, including swapping fuses etc, took me 2 hours...it takes quite a few minutes to check the full length of a 10 or 15m extension reel with 4 outlets! Yes, I am slow...there's no money in doing it properly, unless the cash is incidental, and no, I didn't do a Risk Assessment every time I climbed a ladder.

 

[JK-Electrical]

Portable appliance testing is compulsory for properties in Scotland that are privately let, and has been for a number of years. Any appliances that are supplied as part of a tenancy agreement MUST be tested, no ifs or buts. This is required to be done in conjunction with an EICR prior to the commencement of the tenancy. The landlord is required by law to supply copies of the EICR and PA test certificate to the tenant(s).

There is no statutory guidance as to the frequency of subsequent PA testing/ I reccomend that it be done at five-year intervals so that it runs concurrent with the expiry of the EICR and can be done at the same that the installation is due for its next inspection and testing.

 

[pirate]

Good points there JK! However, I must beg to differ on a minor point...PAT is not compulsory on residential lettings, however evidence that all appliances in a rental property are safe IS mandatory...and so, PAT is the easiest way of proving this. If you have provided all brand new appliances for the first rental, PAT is inappropriate, or at least optional, provided you can evidence the position.
Also, as you rightly say, EICR is indeed compulsory in rentals...I believe Scotland leads the way here.
For those of you unfamiliar with the Scottish system, the following are mandatory when letting out a property:
1. EICR
2. Gas safety certificate (where appropriate)
3. EPC
4. Evidence of safety of portable appliances (PAT is the easiest way)
5. Tenant Information Pack (now superseded, but incorporated in the new PRS rental agreement)
6. Landlord Registration Certificate
7. Lodging of deposit in an approved deposit scheme (fine of up to 2 months rental if not lodged within 30 days)
8. Mains-wired, interlinked smoke/heat alarms, for each hall, main circulation area, kitchen (recent government decision, not yet law, will allow 10 year LiIon battery powered units, linked by radio module, so mains/hard wiring will not be essential...and a good thing too!)
9. Approved emergency call-out telephone numbers for the Factors/building maintenance crew
10. Landlords have to verify Tenant status, ID, Money Laundering, and ...just about to be law...Landlords must verify Tenant's right of abode in UK.

I did this sh*t for years...it just got harder and harder, but all my Landlords complied or I dropped them...

And, every January, I had to send a complete list of every Landlord I represented, every property they had, every rental and deposit they received...several days work, for no pay...

and I am glad I do pro bono for charity now!

Talking of which, the scenario of private sector rental (PRS) vs charity Men's Shed is quite a contrast, and so if I didn't make it clear earlier, I can't schedule PAT every 1.2.3.4 or 5 years, because the needs of the users are changing daily, as some have good skills, some have no skills but want to learn, some have skills they have forgotten/lost, and some have health problems that make daily routines arduous. So, as I said, we need tailored PAT for the regime in question. I manage several rentals, and do I PAT the fridge every year? No, of course not...but my local hairdresser, who is very safety-conscious (unusually!) wants his dryers tested weekly as they are hand-held appliances, in use by many and varied people...either he pays me a modest sum to test out of hours on a Monday, or he replaces them...bet not too many of those guys about!

 

[mhar]

I can vouch for that. Was in a Holiday Inn Express last night for wifes birthday in Newcastle. There was a desk fan in the room, (no AC), and I noticed there wasn't a sticker on it.

I look after a number of holiday rentals and all are tested. However there is not one sticker in evidence.

If you look at the Code of Practice you will see that there is no obligation to use stickers and the use of stickers demonstrates absolutely nothing as was evidenced when my wife returned from an evening class with a pass sticker on her sewing machine because it 'needed it', it was not tested.

Each of my properties has the appliance register on display in the 'house' folder. Most also display detailed pass reports. As I refuse to test the appliances unless the fixed wiring has been tested, their is also an EICR which is also displayed in this folder. All in accordance with the cop and avoiding the use of stickers.

 

[UNG]

Finding it interesting that those north of the border are pushing the PRS and the requirement for PAT when ISITEE has superseded PAT or to be more correct has given PAT it's correct name in an attempt to stop the buck passing on fixed appliances which are invariably overlooked.

ISITEE is about as useful as an MOT it is only really valid the moment it is done if someone subsequently gets injured before the next check who is to blame

 

[JK-Electrical]

For those of you unfamiliar with the Scottish system, the following are mandatory when letting out a property:
1. EICR
2. Gas safety certificate (where appropriate)
3. EPC
4. Evidence of safety of portable appliances (PAT is the easiest way)
5. Tenant Information Pack (now superseded, but incorporated in the new PRS rental agreement)
6. Landlord Registration Certificate
7. Lodging of deposit in an approved deposit scheme (fine of up to 2 months rental if not lodged within 30 days)
8. Mains-wired, interlinked smoke/heat alarms, for each hall, main circulation area, kitchen (recent government decision, not yet law, will allow 10 year LiIon battery powered units, linked by radio module, so mains/hard wiring will not be essential...and a good thing too!)
9. Approved emergency call-out telephone numbers for the Factors/building maintenance crew
10. Landlords have to verify Tenant status, ID, Money Laundering, and ...just about to be law...Landlords must verify Tenant's right of abode in UK.

You forgot about the provision of carbon monoxide alarms in rooms containing gas appliances and a 'principal room' or bedroom where a flue passes through.

 

[pirate]

Ah, yes...I did overlook that!
Just another requirement...
Good point, JK!

I expect there will be more...


UNG, I agree, ISITEE is a better way forward...however, the sticker-jockeys can't extend to ISITEE...at 50p a go, how can you expect a proper service, especially for any appliance that doesn't simply plug in?
Of course, there is the argument that fixed wiring is beyond PAT...but then, we have appliances that bridge the gap.

 

[Des 56]

Here are 3 bits of advice given by the HSE
Most of what is spouted as compulsory is myth

There is no legal requirement to label equipment that has been inspected or tested, nor is there a requirement to keep records of these activities. However, a record and / or labelling can be a useful management tool for monitoring and reviewing the effectiveness of the maintenance scheme – and to demonstrate that a scheme exists.

The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 require that any electrical equipment that has the potential to cause injury is maintained in a safe condition. However, the Regulations do not specify what needs to be done, by whom or how frequently (ie they don't make inspection or testing of electrical appliances a legal requirement, nor do they make it a legal requirement to undertake this annually).

No. The law simply requires an employer to ensure that their electrical equipment is maintained in order to prevent danger. It does not say how this should be done or how often. Employers should take a risk-based approach, considering the type of equipment and what it is being used for. If it is used regularly and moved a lot e.g. a floor cleaner or a kettle, testing (along with visual checks) can be an important part of an effective maintenance regime giving employers confidence that they are doing what is necessary to help them meet their legal duties. HSE provides guidance on how to maintain