Peoples thoughts

[a1guvner]

Just wanted to see peoples thoughts on the UK having a licence system with different classes for sparks, would it be a tool for making unlicenced work easier for the idiots or could it raise standards and make it easier for customers to understand like the Electrical Trainee not being a very high class grade

 

[ian.settle1]

The JIB have a grading system already don't they? Thing is, it's not used properly and Part P got more "umph" as it was government "founded".

Shame.

Remember back in the early eighties when it was muted that the was a electrcians register for all electricians whether they be contracting, maintenance etc, it was decided at the time with the backng of the union it should be run by the JIB as they had a system in place at the time but it died a death as no one took much notice.

Problem is that if the government tried to start one now and you told as a qualified spark he could not work without being regstered they could take them to court as they are stopping them from working as a spark which is similar to the law which states that an employer can not say that you are no good at you job as it restricts you from gaining employment.

 

[ian.settle1]

The cure!

Set up a central agency and scrap all scam providers.

Now comes the problems;

• Who do we get to implement the system? (The ex scam providers).
• Who manages the system (The ex scam providers).
• Who polices the system? (The ex scam providers).

You lot didn’t stand up to the scam providers and now your moaning. I’ve been anti union for over 20 years. BUT I’m now regretting it. The E.E.P.T.U. had a voice in government. Now it’s an insurance broker! No teeth left in it. For the sake of income office workers are under the wing of what was one of one the proudest unions in the world. The only reason we needed the money was to bail out the A.E.U. for which I fought tooth and nail against amalgamation.

My suggestion at my companies central committees general forum that the union be renamed the A.F.U. did not go down to well with the union chiefs (Any F***ers union).

An Ex E.E.T.P.U. Convenor.

View attachment 9978

Rant over!

PS if I had my way it would still be the E.T.U.

Tony,

While I agree with you about the amalgamation with the AEU at least it made a union who had trades now both the EEPTU and AEU members are a minority now that the they have joined with the T & G.

 

[gdr7671]

This is so true i am afraid. My beloved profession of 38 years has sadly become a money spinner for what are now money making schemes for unregulated companies. This started with the laughable part P. I am a member of the IET, registered with the Engineering Council and have a JIB gold card, yet i can not add a 13amp socket outlet in my home!! There is only 1 answer, it is simple, remove bureaucracy, politics and training schemes out of the equation. We do not need a government regulated body at all. We have the power in our hands already. Go back 20 years- a NICEIC approved contractor was approved to every installation. Why inflict extra cost to be a domestic installer???? Same as Elecsa (ECA), Napiit, BSI, ect ect. Give them a licence to print money and they will. Get this in your heads, you (or most of you) are professional tradesmen with proper qualifications and years of experience. The government has no knowledge of our profession, yet it has managed to interfere with our qualification system, our codes of practice and placed restrictions on our areas of work. eg. 5 weeks and you can rewire a house, 5 years and not registered as a domestic installer and you can't!! The only answer is to boycott the part P and let it sink. The only governing bodies that matter are the IET, Engineering Council, The JIB & SJIB, and the ECA for larger companies. Plus the NICEIC in reduced size just approving contractors. If i receive any more post saying i should be ISO 9000 series or ISO 14000 series (more bull****) or be part P i shall personally bomb Westminster and Brussels. I won't shoot my MP he agrees with me. Remember, we are the professionals within our profession. Not Governments or people pushing part P ( who are in it only for the money). Remember our prfession belongs to US not them, without us they can only be poorer, like us (unfortunately).

 

[Kakys2]

This is so true i am afraid. My beloved profession of 38 years has sadly become a money spinner for what are now money making schemes for unregulated companies. This started with the laughable part P. I am a member of the IET, registered with the Engineering Council and have a JIB gold card, yet i can not add a 13amp socket outlet in my home!! There is only 1 answer, it is simple, remove bureaucracy, politics and training schemes out of the equation. We do not need a government regulated body at all. We have the power in our hands already. Go back 20 years- a NICEIC approved contractor was approved to every installation. Why inflict extra cost to be a domestic installer???? Same as Elecsa (ECA), Napiit, BSI, ect ect. Give them a licence to print money and they will. Get this in your heads, you (or most of you) are professional tradesmen with proper qualifications and years of experience. The government has no knowledge of our profession, yet it has managed to interfere with our qualification system, our codes of practice and placed restrictions on our areas of work. eg. 5 weeks and you can rewire a house, 5 years and not registered as a domestic installer and you can't!! The only answer is to boycott the part P and let it sink. The only governing bodies that matter are the IET, Engineering Council, The JIB & SJIB, and the ECA for larger companies. Plus the NICEIC in reduced size just approving contractors. If i receive any more post saying i should be ISO 9000 series or ISO 14000 series (more bull****) or be part P i shall personally bomb Westminster and Brussels. I won't shoot my MP he agrees with me. Remember, we are the professionals within our profession. Not Governments or people pushing part P ( who are in it only for the money). Remember our prfession belongs to US not them, without us they can only be poorer, like us (unfortunately).

I 100% agree with everything you said, and if everyone (every electrical tradesman) feels the same then a boycot would work but otherwise you would be putting yourself at fisk.

 

[hermetic]

Well said!

 

[trev]

A boycott would have to be coordinated by someone or some group. Apathy will play a massive part and by doing this it could play into the cowboy's hands "Oh the sparks are boycotting the system so I'll just say I am too" would be the phrase used.
I agree that the system does not work but I also feel that regulation of some sort is a necessity. What form that should take is another matter, maybe if the JIB/SJIB had big pointy teeth it would help. Sadly though the organisations being consulted about reviewing part p are the very ones we are kicking against.
The turkeys will not vote for christmas and nothing will change for the better.

 

[m top]

Been looking on here a while i am not an electrician but a building contractor with 25 years experience,i have signed up to one of these fast track courses to gain electrical experience with a view to be able to install solar panels to new build jobs for myself in the future.
i do have a basic understanding of basic electrical circuits before i started this course domestic side but am wondering why so many of you think these courses
are so bad,
So if you needed an operation and before you went under the guy performing it said "I'm not a doctor But I've done a short anatomy course and I reckon I can fix you" you would be ok with that?
Or if I came to you and said "I've never done any bricklaying in my life (which I have not) but I've got a construction background so I should be able to pick it up" you would be happy to employ me as a brickie?

AS an apprentice yes isnt that i would be looking for after this course.
I dont see myself as an experienced electrician and would be foolish to after doing a fast track course however it gives me the paperwork i need to be able to apply for mcs,which i believe you need to be part p reg for ,2 years ago it never crossed my mind to be an electrician but had so many customers asking about solar installs that i thought it would be sensible to offer the service myself,since then i have been on a few installs with our sparkie to gain experience whilst doing the course,i can understand some of your opinions but whats wrong with improving yourself and your business.

 

[Engineer54]

AS an apprentice yes isnt that i would be looking for after this course.
I dont see myself as an experienced electrician and would be foolish to after doing a fast track course however it gives me the paperwork i need to be able to apply for mcs,which i believe you need to be part p reg for ,2 years ago it never crossed my mind to be an electrician but had so many customers asking about solar installs that i thought it would be sensible to offer the service myself,since then i have been on a few installs with our sparkie to gain experience whilst doing the course,i can understand some of your opinions but whats wrong with improving yourself and your business.

The amount of solar installs will fall drastically now that the buy back has been cut in half!! That side of the industry is going to be a dead duck very soon, unless they reverse that daft decision...

 

[Kakys2]

The problem is not with the people who do the courses and get the certificates to carry out electrical work they are just doing what everyone else is doing, the problem is with the system that allows them to do it.

 

[Octopus]

The problem is that there is no policing of any scheme at all. End of.

If I knew that 10% of each notification went to funding "policing" the system and that people were held to account then I'd be happy.

 

[malcolmsanford]

AS an apprentice yes isnt that i would be looking for after this course.
I dont see myself as an experienced electrician and would be foolish to after doing a fast track course however it gives me the paperwork i need to be able to apply for mcs,which i believe you need to be part p reg for ,2 years ago it never crossed my mind to be an electrician but had so many customers asking about solar installs that i thought it would be sensible to offer the service myself,since then i have been on a few installs with our sparkie to gain experience whilst doing the course,i can understand some of your opinions but whats wrong with improving yourself and your business.

I'd be interested to know where you stand on bonding or is it earthing, perhaps you could tell us, a frame if it's a TL inverter and the system is a PME

Do you know why if you do use a TL inverter, that if a RCD is required why you need a B type

I'd also be interested in knowing what you think about bonding or is it earthing a frame that does incorporate an inverter that as a transformer, but can be reached through a dormer window.

What is your take on RCD protection when a manufacturer insists on 100mA RCD for the inverter but you have to supply the circuit with additional protection as in the regs and fit a 30mA one

What is your take on If RCD protection is required, how would you sit when a fault occurs on the circuit and the RCD must trip within 40mS, but of course the inverter will not shut down in that time,do you have proposals or scenarios to over come this.

 

[Kakys2]

Aren't the pv solar panels (nowa days) supplied and installed as kits and can be connected anywhere in a ring main.

I think someone told me you can get them with just a domestic 3 pin plug. I would assume it would have some sort of electronics to compare and match the phase angle.

 

[oldtimer]

Return to the EETPU Tony are you on drugs ???? This is the same union that was run by Frank Chappel and his sons the same Frank who was a committed communist who then went on to take a seat in the house of lords and also manouvered his 2 privately educated sons into the EETPU who when I asked them for help 26 years ago (my daughter was born at the same time) the said and I quote "look we are not here so p!$$ about with a minor dispute like this we take on the big disputes" Hold on I said this is February and my subs are paid up to the end of the year I am not asking a lot just a letter to my employer to get them off my back or I could loose my job "Well you must have done something wrong to warrant it they said" Yes I refused to connect 10 500watt floodlights to a 13 amp fused spur for a car (SAAB) compound because it was unsafe "Next they said" Well take my union card and dont bother with the refund because you will not see my face again or my subs "you wont get a refund anyway" they said and for the past 26 years all they have been good for is selling you insurance.

Tony the central agency you mention as I said JIB /SJIB admittatly not in the same structure that they are in just now why ? because they hold all the information

 

[malcolmsanford]

Aren't the pv solar panels (nowa days) supplied and installed as kits and can be connected anywhere in a ring main.

I think someone told me you can get them with just a domestic 3 pin plug. I would assume it would have some sort of electronics to compare and match the phase angle.

A Home Solar Power Kit that plugs straight into the grid. Go Solar Now - Solar for energy

You mean these things, well not really apart from it being so unprofessional a builder would not install it, it's not going to give you a lot, there are no FITs, though perhaps that might not be of a concern so much now, and would you really want this in your garden??

 

[imago]

Aw! Why did you have to go and mention Unions? I can rise above most stuff, but as soon as that self-serving collection of excrement gets brought into the conversation I simply can't let it go.

Unions are run and operated by dictatorial, short sighted, self serving scum who are far worse than ANY politician that's ever held office. If you want to point a finger at a single source for the demise of British industry and the value of a skilled workforce then it should be at Unions and their 'leadership'. In the '60s and '70s they flexed what they saw as their right's and muscle. By the '80s they were reaping what they had sown, and now they're still trying to exert what little influence they have over a dwindling membership and an already struggling economy.

If that shower of .. well, I can't think of a suitable word to use for them that wouldn't get me (quite rightly) banned from the forum. So, if the Unions ever gained any influence again in this country, never mind leave the industry, I'd leave the country.

And breathe. "It's just a forum, it's just a forum, it's ....."