Peoples thoughts

[a1guvner]

Just wanted to see peoples thoughts on the UK having a licence system with different classes for sparks, would it be a tool for making unlicenced work easier for the idiots or could it raise standards and make it easier for customers to understand like the Electrical Trainee not being a very high class grade

 

[Engineer54]

Been looking on here a while i am not an electrician but a building contractor with 25 years experience,i have signed up to one of these fast track courses to gain electrical experience with a view to be able to install solar panels to new build jobs for myself in the future.
i do have a basic understanding of basic electrical circuits before i started this course domestic side but am wondering why so many of you think these courses
are so bad,i appreciate the fact that you cant know everthing when doing these courses,but i do find some peoples comments contradictory in regards to experience knowledge levels as you are training to be a domestic installer not an industrial or electrical engineer,domestic electrics are not that difficult and anyone with basic construction background should find enough grounding from these courses to be able to install domestic electrics.
I hope i have not offended any tradesmen with my views and i am not quiet sure if this is the right post to post my comments,however i would be pleased to hear your views thankyou.

This is another point, why do you think you can become an electrician in 5 weeks because of your building trade experience?? This is yet another area that needs putting a stop too, like these kitchen fitters and plumbers, that suddenly think they can do there own electrical work!! Funny how everyone thinks the electrical game is a doddle!! It's only a doodle at the very best of times, but as soon as you hit any form of problem, you'll soon find out it's far from a doddle!! Then you'll either cover up the problem or be running around trying to get a REAL electrician to tell you what to do or sort it for you!!

This has been a real problem for the electrical industry as far as i can see, with these dammed Scam Providers, creating totally meaningless ''defined scope'' categories for the sole purpose of bringing in yet more money at the expense of the very people they are supposedly be serving/protecting. It all needs to stop, and stop NOW!!

 

[IQ Electrical]

This is another point, why do you think you can become an electrician in 5 weeks because of your building trade experience?? This is yet another area that needs putting a stop too, like these kitchen fitters and plumbers, that suddenly think they can do there own electrical work!! Funny how everyone thinks the electrical game is a doddle!! It's only a doodle at the very best of times, but as soon as you hit any form of problem, you'll soon find out it's far from a doddle!! Then you'll either cover up the problem or be running around trying to get a REAL electrician to tell you what to do or sort it for you!!

This has been a real problem for the electrical industry as far as i can see, with these dammed Scam Providers, creating totally meaningless ''defined scope'' categories for the sole purpose of bringing in yet more money at the expense of the very people they are supposedly be serving/protecting. It all needs to stop, and stop NOW!!

I agree that a domestic installation isn't exactly rocket science but E54 is right in that when faced with anything that deviates from the norm, some of these guys are goosed.

But they have their own dedicated thread here, it's called 'Stupid question of the week' and it grows at an alarming rate.....

 

[oldtimer]

This is another point, why do you think you can become an electrician in 5 weeks because of your building trade experience?? This is yet another area that needs putting a stop too, like these kitchen fitters and plumbers, that suddenly think they can do there own electrical work!! Funny how everyone thinks the electrical game is a doddle!! It's only a doodle at the very best of times, but as soon as you hit any form of problem, you'll soon find out it's far from a doddle!! Then you'll either cover up the problem or be running around trying to get a REAL electrician to tell you what to do or sort it for you!!

This has been a real problem for the electrical industry as far as i can see, with these dammed Scam Providers, creating totally meaningless ''defined scope'' categories for the sole purpose of bringing in yet more money at the expense of the very people they are supposedly be serving/protecting. It all needs to stop, and stop NOW!!

Totaly agree how would a plumber feel if we said dont bother I am going to take a 1 week course and I will do the plumbing just as I already do in my house the other thing that a lot of people are missing is a customer asked can you do plumbing as well I said yes I do all of my own except for gas but I cannot do a job for you SO HERE IS THE KEY PART SO SIT UP AND NOTE so the customer says why not and I say because my PL insurance only covers me for electrics and not plumbing so the next time one of those smart ar$£ joiners or plumbers say its a doddle just reply well hope you are insured to do it because if there is a claim you will have to pay it out of your own pocket because you are not insured good pont said the customer who 3 months later called to say he was getting his kitchen done and would I do the electrics I had to decline because I dont do rewires or kitchens Rewires because I cannot be ar$£d and I am too old and Kitchens because I dont trust joiners ie be thee on Monday morning at 9 and he turns up on Wednesday morning and by the way the kitchen guys ie plumber and joiner told the customer we can do the electrics he said fine I take it one of you have insurance cover for this he told me their faces were a picture when they realised they were not.

PS Engineer 54 the reason I mentioned the JIB is the SJIB (cannot speak for JIB) is appears to be better organised plus as I said too many cooks with the registration companies who would only b*&^%$r it up and we need a central registration agency

This has been a real problem for the electrical industry as far as i can see, with these dammed Scam Providers, creating totally meaningless ''defined scope'' categories for the sole purpose of bringing in yet more money at the expense of the very people they are supposedly be serving/protecting. It all needs to stop, and stop NOW!![/QUOTE]

 

[needasparks]

I know this is a spin from the de-skilling thread but it does seem to be a theme now and totally agree with the comments but as said we are stuck with it now.
We all knew before the law changed that there were alot of DIY and bodges from builders doing their own wiring going on and it will always continue, at least before part P was introduced it was black or white as in either you were a sparks or not but now we have so many shades of grey areas its no suprize the everyday customer has no idea what or who to get in to carry out their work.
I understand the reasons for a licence type thing but again we know how the training for said item will go.
My only guess is it would work if a correct duration apprentiship was served as being part of the process and this being the mandatory part, You can tell the lack of knowledge from the basic questions asked on this forum from people doing said crash courses calling themselves an electrician. I did used to laugh at the questions asked, Like '' What cable to use on a cooker'' from someone who in another post has done a 2391.
Agree something has to give soon as insurance companies are going to dictate it when in a couple of years the claims come rolling in.

 

[m top]

i appreciate all the comments and nothing equates to experience,however
these courses teach you to work to regs and most importantly work safely,if i for one looked at a job and thought it was beyond me i would be honest and offer it to someone with more experience.
The courses afore mentioned teach you how to install a domestic curcuit New Build so in my mind should be able to install it after completeing the course if you know your way around general construction,i would freely admit they offer little more so appreciate your comments i do believe though it seems electricians on this forum see all the fast track course providers as people with no idea,

you do a course to learn and not everyone on these courses are numptys!!

 

[imago]

you do a course to learn and not everyone on these courses are numptys!!

Don't let it wind you up. It's just a forum, and people have opinion's.

The thing with experience is it counts for nothing unless you learn something along the way. A mate of mine raced bikes for 25 years, on pretty much every track in the UK. He's still rubbish at it after all that time.

There are electricians (and plumbers, builders, roofers etc etc) who are time served and have been at it for 30 years who I wouldn't let change a plug in my house. Likewise there are newly qualified tradesmen who do a cracking job.

It's not fair to lump everyone into the same category. For example, not everyone over 50 is a master craftsman who has become an embittered old giffer.

 

[a1guvner]

People in the know are aware of the differences regarding qualifications and lengths of courses, but does joe public in the majority believe an electrician is an electrician

 

[imago]

No, absolutely not. I totally agree that the system is poorly conceived, and it's enforcement is even worse.

I just don't think it's right to lump everyone who tries to better themselves, or has the guts to put their money where there mouth is a make a change, into a single category of incompetant dangerous fools.

The irony in some posts on here is so thick you could cut it with a knife sometimes. "our trade is going to the dogs." "I've had enough of this" etc etc etc. Yet the posters do nothing about it. Someone else says the same in a different trade/profession/job, and when they do get off their backsides and do something about it they face a barrage of criticism. I don't think it's fair as there will be a no higher proportion who are useless, or fools, than in the 'established' practitioners or any other part of the population. It's worth remembering that someone who has been an electrician for 25 years could well be a 3 month wonder from the Thatcher era, a retrained miner say. So are all 20 - 25 year experienced electricians 3 month wonders who's qualifications aren't worth spit?

 

[needasparks]

I for one have no such problem with people bettering themselves or changing direction in work whatsoever, afterall you only live once and this life is no trial run and have much respect for them giving it a go.
What i do not understand is the way people want to throw money at a two week course expecting it to give the same level of understanding as someone who has spent a minimum of three to five years working on the tools and at college like most trades used to.
unfortunately the sparks out there have no power to change the way people get their bits of paper but i do like to educate the public when i can on the pitfalls of trusting a part P only sparks.

 

[highspark]

There is no better funding/money raiser than the PART P entry guidlines of the 17th Edition which any monkey can pass!

 

[vernam616]

Until something happens personally to a politician involving electricity, wether it be a death/injury etc...

Nothing will be done

 

[needasparks]

Until something happens personally to a politician involving electricity, wether it be a death/injury etc...

Nothing will be done

Was that not how this circus started..........

 

[vernam616]

Was that not how this circus started..........

I think you could be right..............

*awaits some bright spark to post a news link to the original story

 

[needasparks]

As you asked nicely

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...r-electrocuted-in-botched-fitted-kitchen.html

 

[vernam616]

As you asked nicely

MP's daughter electrocuted in botched fitted kitchen - Telegraph

I dont think it was a result of that to be honest, as it was dated October 2004, part p was introduced in january 2005, im pretty sure it took more than 3 months to plan for it