Periodic Testing

[DuaneMHunt1976]

I was asked today if i would do the testing for someone (ie no qualifications did the work off their own skills) CU Change, adding a few sockets and Lights fixed (before i get any more questions on that, thats all i know)

I said there was 3rd Party but not many people do that and seem unwilling to do that, to which i was told cant you just do a Periodic testing on it (thinking if i did that i would have to do every thing to make sure it dose work and still dose)

'I did think i wasnt alowed to do that!' EiCR on some thing that was done by someone else like that!

Pointed out that i wasnt that sure on the legal stance on that, to which i was told "your unwilling to do that!"



So can you do a EICR after such a thing!

 

[KFH]

You can do an EICR but that is not an EIC and you are not signing off for the design and construction and you cannot use it to Part P certify unless your scheme has a process to allow it. There are schemes that allow third party testing and certification of Part P work but most people want to be involved in the process and see the work in progress to make sure it is getting done properly. He may be able to use an EICR to get Part P approval but he would need to contact Building Control and tell them a sob story and they may accept it. Otherwise he needs to find someone who will do third party certification after the work has been done.

Personally I would keep clear unless I could just do a EICR and nothing else and I would probably want to quote a bit more than normal just in case he has made a mess. The problem comes if you find a fault and he then wants you to repeat the EICR to get a satisfactory report.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

You could offer to help the person do their own I&T, then they could sort out the notification themselves.
Not ideal, but then it's not really your problem.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

You could offer to help the person do their own I&T, then they could sort out the notification themselves.
Not ideal, but then it's not really your problem.

What is I&T

 

[Pete999]

Um Inspection and Test

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

Personally I would keep clear unless I could just do a EICR and nothing else and I would probably want to quote a bit more than normal just in case he has made a mess. The problem comes if you find a fault and he then wants you to repeat the EICR to get a satisfactory report.

I get a bit lost here, he wants to change the CU. So if he changes it and i do a EICR, and pass it, is every thing OK with the WORLD!
That seems to me just what the 3rd Party Testing would do, but they would do a EIC.

 

[Dipzy]

Inspection & Testing

 

[Guest77]

What is I&T

Idiots and Tools, next question :38:

 

[Guest77]

I was asked today if i would do the testing for someone (ie no qualifications did the work off their own skills) CU Change, adding a few sockets and Lights fixed (before i get any more questions on that, thats all i know)

I said there was 3rd Party but not many people do that and seem unwilling to do that, to which i was told cant you just do a Periodic testing on it (thinking if i did that i would have to do every thing to make sure it dose work and still dose)

'I did think i wasnt alowed to do that!' EiCR on some thing that was done by someone else like that!

Pointed out that i wasnt that sure on the legal stance on that, to which i was told "your unwilling to do that!"



So can you do a EICR after such a thing!

Obviously you said no?

 

[Barrie Patrick]

Think you are going to have to ask a lot more questions and seriously think about how much you get involved before you risk your own reputation and status doing a friend a favour?

Its one thing a mate asking you to give advice and/or an opinion to getting you to take responsibility for him doing something wrong?

Barrie

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

Right .. i am now getting lost..

I said NO by the way.
I dont KNOW THE GUY, ie i know him as much as i know any one on this site.



What i asked "So can you do a EICR after such a thing!"
What to me ****es at the 3rd Party and any one can do jobs themselfs get someone to do EICR and might have to do that twice.

 

[Octopus]

Why would somebody trying to earn a living as a spark agree to test a DIY CU change. The mind boggles.

Why do they want up you involved? Do they expect you to notify the work as yours?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Right .. i am now getting lost..

I said NO by the way.
I dont KNOW THE GUY, ie i know him as much as i know any one on this site.



What i asked "So can you do a EICR after such a thing!"
What to me ****es at the 3rd Party and any one can do jobs themselfs get someone to do EICR and might have to do that twice.

Maybe I'm being thick but can you translate that last line for an 'oldun ?

Edit Sorry,just seen the dyslexic disclaimer!....a re-phrase would be nice though!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

To my mind, the only way 3rd party certification can work, is if the 3rd party attends site during construction.
I don't see how else verification of cable depths, prescribed routes, etc. can be made?
The only other option would be to conduct a PIR.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

Why would somebody trying to earn a living as a spark agree to test a DIY CU change. The mind boggles.

Why do they want up you involved? Do they expect you to notify the work as yours?

Why dose the world turn?

Ok Well thats what the 3rd PARTY thing dose .. lets DIY change things like CU and then have someone else TEST them.
What the Goverment wanted. I am not here to debate such a thing.

Why me? i guess because I've passed my testing qualifications, and guessed they think i MIGHT be able to do that 3rd Party Stuff and then they can have someone sign it off..

Notify? well i guess they did as they expect me to do a EICR.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

Maybe I'm being thick but can you translate that last line for an 'oldun ?

Edit Sorry,just seen the dyslexic disclaimer!....a re-phrase would be nice though!

Basically if a Electrician can just do a EICR, for a DIY doing their own work.
Dosnt that make all this 3rd Party Stuff usless and not even worth talking about.

 

[Octopus]

Why dose the world turn?

Ok Well thats what the 3rd PARTY thing dose .. lets DIY change things like CU and then have someone else TEST them.
What the Goverment wanted. I am not here to debate such a thing.

Why me? i guess because I've passed my testing qualifications, and guessed they think i MIGHT be able to do that 3rd Party Stuff and then they can have someone sign it off..

Notify? well i guess they did as they expect me to do a EICR.

If its an older installation I would ask him when he's planning to do the job and switch you phone off on the day - a CU change, no testing, adding RCD's, IR issues, borrowed neutrals....

Best keep well out of it.

On the rare occasions I'm asked to do this, I simply say I do the work completely or I don't do it at all!

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

To my mind, the only way 3rd party certification can work, is if the 3rd party attends site during construction.
I don't see how else verification of cable depths, prescribed routes, etc. can be made?
The only other option would be to conduct a PIR.

Lets think of the 3rd Party in Par with the Locale Council, I am guessing they will have to be told, and i am guess they Wont come out and watch you do all of it, just come out before you put in the cables, talk to you were you are putting them in and depths etc, and then come back out when you are done and test the job.


But what i am asking, as he asked me to do, is a EICR Peroidic report.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

I think your right Murdoch

 

[Deleted member 26818]

BS 7161 does allow for the design, construction and testing of an installation to be carried out by separate individuals.
It even allows for people who are not actually involved in the design, construction and testing to sign off an EIC.
However those kind of situations are usually found on larger construction sites and with larger electrical companies, where there will be someone in overall command of the project.
To have a situation where a complete stranger turns up at an installation with no knowledge of the design, construction methods, or even the materials used, to issue an EIC, is to my mind a farce.

 

[Blademan_98]

If you are asked to do an EICR on a property, you have no idea who installed it if there is no paperwork.
You just report on the installation as you find it.
If Johny DIY has done it and it shows, then it gets an unsatisfactory result.
If it checks out, it gets a satisfactory result.

It is just a report not a certificate.

Work done without notification is still illegal no matter how many condition reports it has

 

[sparksburnout]

This 3rd part certification is a load of nonsense, it should be stopped. It is far too open to people getting bunged to make out they have done the work in this sort of scenario. The only way anyone can honestly say that an installation has been installed to the regulations is to be on site during almost all of the work, and as others have said who is going to do that when they could be doing the job? The only way it should be allowed is with bigger firms who have dedicated inspectors who are on site and keep a proper account of things. I know for a fact there is a guy round my way doing it who only ever goes on site when all the works done!

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

I know for a fact there is a guy round my way doing it who only ever goes on site when all the works done!

seem to turn a blind eye and not alowed to talk about such things.
when i was doing my testing courses, my tutor had one guy who did houses and had to do about 3 a day.
My tutor did his own house and took him all day to do a full test on it.

and i know my sisters house wasnt testing, as i found lose wires, and one socket wired wrong L-N crossed over.
i think im going to look at the test results i think the whole lot is fudge really.
Tutor also talked about how some people do VAN TESTS, were they just sit in the Van writing in Figures.

 

[Sparkie30]

To OP, you don't know whose done what. Get in there, carry out a i&t, get your money and give them EICR. Job done

 

[Midwest]

Tell him to get somebody in from Stroma; https://www.stroma.com/certificatio...-schemes/third-party-electrical-certification

:earmuffs:

 

[sparksburnout]

To OP, you don't know whose done what. Get in there, carry out a i&t, get your money and give them EICR. Job done

With respect that's not on is it? You have just said yourself you have no idea what is lurking behind the scenes, so only a fool would put his name to it. This is peoples safety we are talking about.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

Tell him to get somebody in from Stroma; https://www.stroma.com/certificatio...-schemes/third-party-electrical-certification

:earmuffs:

Was looking at the site and see if i could FIND a 3rd Party tester, cant seem to find any were to check up on people, if they are a member or were i could find a 3rd party electrician and hand their information to him.

 

[Sparkie30]

With respect that's not on is it? You have just said yourself you have no idea what is lurking behind the scenes, so only a fool would put his name to it. This is peoples safety we are talking about.

Are you telling me for PIR you carry out you know what's lurking behind the scenes. It's not a EIC its a EICR.

 

[sparksburnout]

Are you telling me for PIR you carry out you know what's lurking behind the scenes. It's not a EIC its a EICR.

Thats the point, its an EICR on something that has never had an EIC, isn't it? If someone has done a CU change and added sockets etc, then a cert for that work should be issued, not an EICR? When you do an EICR you would like to think that the installation was actually certificated properly on day one, whenever that might have been?

 

[Sparkie30]

Thats the point, its an EICR on something that has never had an EIC, isn't it? If someone has done a CU change and added sockets etc, then a cert for that work should be issued, not an EICR? When you do an EICR you would like to think that the installation was actually certificated properly on day one, whenever that might have been?

In a perfect world yes that would be the case but tell me how many times when you asked for previous paper work they had in hand? I can count in one hand the times that happen to me. My experience anyway.

 

[sparksburnout]

In a perfect world yes that would be the case but tell me how many times when you asked for previous paper work they had in hand? I can count in one hand the times that happen to me. My experience anyway.

Yes mate I agree with you. However, you would like to think that a lot of them were done years back and to a decent standard. Personally, I wouldn't go near 3rd party stuff with a bargepole, I ain't that desperate, and like I said I think it's a crap idea open to abuse. In this original case, there should be a proper EIC issued, not an EICR, an you can't issue one unless you have either done the work or witnessed it being done, start to finish, IMO.

 

[Midwest]

Thats the point, its an EICR on something that has never had an EIC, isn't it? If someone has done a CU change and added sockets etc, then a cert for that work should be issued, not an EICR? When you do an EICR you would like to think that the installation was actually certificated properly on day one, whenever that might have been?

Well somebody must be doing this 'retrospective' EICR. You can apply for 'Regularisation Certificate' of the building regs for electrical works. My LBC charge a fee £618. No idea how it actually works, and whether somebody has followed this process. But it is in place.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

When the Building Control Certificate is Reguarlised, someone (usually on contract to the Council) comes out to supposedly conduct an EICR.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

am wondering if i should of suggested..

You do the New Sockets, and fix the Light and i can Watch/Point out any error and test the Consumer Unit.