Petition: Make working with electricity a criminal offence unless qualified

[UNG]

My point is clear, and you've made it for me - you clearly deem yourself to be competent to carry out tasks which you hold no formal qualifications in, that's fair enough.

Your point isn't very clear at all and I haven't made it for you read the post again I got my experience working on vehicles under the supervision for many years of a qualified old school mechanic learning a lot of things they don't teach the vehicle technicians of today. There are a lot of electricians out there who started as mates and got made up to sparks with little or no theory or qualification behind them

Nigel Gresham also considered himself competent - I expect there have been lots of damage, injury and deaths due to folks assuming their own competence - the premise of the petition is flawed and simply not enforceable.

To use one of your favourites go away and do a bit more deeper research

This guy was an idiot and a bit deluded to use that as a defence, he had extensively "modified" that vehicle with many incompatible parts to the extent that it was probably easier to list what was right with it if there was anything than what was wrong with it, I read most of the reports on that incident at the time and what he had done was create a travelling incident waiting to happen

 

[sean_ork]

To use one of your favourites go away and do a bit more deeper research

This guy was an idiot and a bit deluded to use that as a defence, he had extensively "modified" that vehicle with many incompatible parts to the extent that it was probably easier to list what was right with it if there was anything than what was wrong with it, I read most of the reports on that incident at the time and what he had done was create a travelling incident waiting to happen

What else would additional reasearch reveal ? - yes he was an idiot, now the world knows that sad story we can all be judgemental with the benifit of hindsight.


But he considered himself to be competent, yet had no formal qualifications in an applicable subject. There may well be plenty of sparks who started as mates, knowing very little, they may now still be working and earning - but are you saying they'll not have had to formally proven their competence at some point ?


We probably won't know how many others will be proven not to be competent in the future untill some form of injurious incident occurs - that's just the way life is.

 

[Golden_Boy]

I think if wholesellers and diy shops werent allowed to sell to general public without showing proof you are a qualified spark/signed up to regulating body/jib card this would be first move to stop people putting themselves and there families at risk.

Wont work... I have worked abroad in countries where it is ILLEGAL for a non qualified sparks to carry out works of ANY kind.
However... these laws made little or no difference to the amount of work carried out by non qualified guys both for friends and paying customers.
There was always a supplier that would break the law and sell kit to anyone off the street, It all boiled down to money.
In this country of course we have car boot sales on every street corner where anyone can buy anything if the price is right..

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The problem with licensing schemes such as those in use in Australia, and which used to be in use in New Zealand, is that while they may increase profits for registered electricians, they are detrimental towards safety.
My thoughts regarding anyone who advocates licensing, are that they are either uninformed, or excessively greedy.

 

[Golden_Boy]

The problem with licensing schemes such as those in use in Australia, and which used to be in use in New Zealand, is that while they may increase profits for registered electricians, they are detrimental towards safety.
My thoughts regarding anyone who advocates licensing, are that they are either uninformed, or excessively greedy.

Australia was one of the countries I lived.. see above

 

[Deleted member 26818]

One of the reasons New Zealand has dropped the licensing scheme, and Australia is considering dropping it, is for safety.
The problem being that where someone cannot afford to employ a registered electrician, then bodges are made.
Take for instance a broken lightswitch faceplate.
Can't afford AU$150 for an electrician to replace the switch, cover it with Selotape or Ductape.
Or perhaps, nick one from a vacant property.

 

[OnlyHumanHere]

I've just bought a house that required a lot of work. I've no qualifications when it comes to electrics however it's not rocket science. I'm not paying someone £250 a day to rewire or fit new storage heaters in when I can do that myself.

Like someone said on the first page, where does it stop?

 

[7029 dave]

I've just bought a house that required a lot of work. I've no qualifications when it comes to electrics however it's not rocket science. I'm not paying someone £250 a day to rewire or fit new storage heaters in when I can do that myself.

Like someone said on the first page, where does it stop?

What you do in your home own is up to you, however masquerading as an Electrician charging people to work in their homes is another story IMO.

 

[Darkwood]

I've just bought a house that required a lot of work. I've no qualifications when it comes to electrics however it's not rocket science. I'm not paying someone £250 a day to rewire or fit new storage heaters in when I can do that myself.

Like someone said on the first page, where does it stop?

Looking in from the outside it often can seem its a doddle, but trust me, when you have spent 4yrs at college and with an apprenticeship and 27yrs in the trade, you see comments like yours and shake your head and think to yourself, if only they knew what we know.

No disrespect to yourself, I do wander though when you wired these storage heaters were you knowledged in -

Cable calc's and choice of protective device.
Cable zoning.
When and if RCD protection is required.
Confirmation of circuit and cable integrity through 'dead' tests.
Confirmation of earthing through live tests and an understanding how to interpret the results.
If required, is your equipotential bonding done to services like your Gas and Water and is it safe and compliant.

What I'm getting at is, there are many who think its simple as rule of thumb but just because you have an earth connected to your consumer unit and one connected to the storage heater doesn't mean its functional, compliant thus safe.

In your shoes, you would be better to look at it from the other aspect - would you pay £250 as a small price IMHO to pay to ensure the safety of your install from fire and the risks to your family that electric can pose- if you have had your worked checked and tested afterwards by a competent person then fair do's, I see no problem in undertaking such work in that case as long as you are not energising it before its been passed as safe.

 

[OnlyHumanHere]

It was a future tense comment. I've not done it yet, however at the moment I need all the plugs pulled out of the kitchen due to tanking needing to be done (I can do that myself, turn off at main box, pull plugs).

Then I'm just looking at replacing the old storage heaters...I've got my eyes on Quantum Dimplex. About 5 of them....I've thrown out all my current storage heaters (crikey, they're heavy). I don't see it being hard to rewire the Quantums in if I just use common sense, all the old SH have got E7 connection and main rail plug sockets next to them.

Once it's all done, I'll be getting an electrician to come over to certify it all, however I'm on a budget and can't afford to pay someone something I can do myself with the aid of youtube and some tools.

 

[Andy78]

It was a future tense comment. I've not done it yet, however at the moment I need all the plugs pulled out of the kitchen due to tanking needing to be done (I can do that myself, turn off at main box, pull plugs).

Then I'm just looking at replacing the old storage heaters...I've got my eyes on Quantum Dimplex. About 5 of them....I've thrown out all my current storage heaters (crikey, they're heavy). I don't see it being hard to rewire the Quantums in if I just use common sense, all the old SH have got E7 connection and main rail plug sockets next to them.

Once it's all done, I'll be getting an electrician to come over to certify it all, however I'm on a budget and can't afford to pay someone something I can do myself with the aid of youtube and some tools.

I'd get that electrician who will be "signing it off" to agree to this arrangement before you embark on this project. He will more than likely want to guide you and instruct you IF ​he agrees in the first place.
If you rang me after the fact and asked me the same I would give you the same response as would most professional electricians. It would involve lots of laughter followed by an engaged tone.

You'll always get a dodgy one to make you a cert up of course. Plenty of those clowns about.

 

[Darkwood]

It was a future tense comment. I've not done it yet, however at the moment I need all the plugs pulled out of the kitchen due to tanking needing to be done (I can do that myself, turn off at main box, pull plugs).

Then I'm just looking at replacing the old storage heaters...I've got my eyes on Quantum Dimplex. About 5 of them....I've thrown out all my current storage heaters (crikey, they're heavy). I don't see it being hard to rewire the Quantums in if I just use common sense, all the old SH have got E7 connection and main rail plug sockets next to them.

Once it's all done, I'll be getting an electrician to come over to certify it all, however I'm on a budget and can't afford to pay someone something I can do myself with the aid of youtube and some tools.

Please tell me you removed the bricks first :banghead: lol

 

[OnlyHumanHere]

haha yea, actually using some of them to build up my hearth for a fireplace I'm fitting. I'll be getting a nice hearth but I want it raised...figured I'd pay homage to the original heaters and use the bricks to good use.

 

[Darkwood]

haha yea, actually using some of them to build up my hearth for a fireplace I'm fitting. I'll be getting a nice hearth but I want it raised...figured I'd pay homage to the original heaters and use the bricks to good use.

Good luck, they are notouriously brittle and hard to work with unless your just stacking/laying them complete of course. :cool3:

 

[OnlyHumanHere]

Good luck, they are notouriously brittle and hard to work with unless your just stacking/laying them complete of course. :cool3:

That's exactly what I'm doing. Just about twice stacked, 4x4 bricks. Not cutting them or anything. The hearth will be floating at the edged, so no one will see the horrendous looking bricks...I just need some height.