Phasing

[davesparks]

Yes there are.
I once worked at just such an installation.
If I were to carry out an EICR on that installation, where I installed such circuits, I would now apply a code C3.

Why a C3?

 

[spark 68]

Why a C3?

To be fair I was wondering why as well.

I know when using *only* colours for identification only brown can be used for lives (line) in Single phase installations, which is why we have to sleeve the other colours on say two-way switches, as far as I know the other phase colours can be used in three-phase though.

I will have to have a proper look at the BYB to see if that has changed

 

[Risteard]

as far as I know the other phase colours can be used in three-phase though.

Only for three-phase circuits. As stated BS 7671 requires all single-phase circuits (regardless of whether they are fed from a three-phase dis board) to be brown and blue.

I do use phase colours in single-phase circuits quite a lot, but never on a BS 7671 installation as it is a prohibited practice.

 

[spark 68]

I will have a proper look through the various Amds and editions later to see if it changed or if it was ever allowed.

I can only see table 51 in the BYB at a quick glance, I have done both ways in the past, although I cannot say I have used other phase colours for single phase circuits for quite a while now, as you say we normally use brown and a circuit ident label or other such marker to say which phase it is on. hmm

 

[Engineer54]

Well in the OP's case where all the socket outlets are mounted in Dado trunking using the three phases to supply those single phase sockets, it makes perfect sense to me to use the phase colours to directly identify the phase to which a circuit is connected too throughout it's length. Why such an installation method is not now allowed is totally beyond me.

I've always used the phase colours within lab's, workshops, integrated hospital ward bedhead electrical points etc, etc trunking systems, and have no intention of changing now. As i say the reason behind such nonsense in BS7671 is beyond me, as far as i'm concerned it ''exceeds'' BS 7671 requirements....

 

[Risteard]

I will have a proper look through the various Amds and editions later to see if it changed or if it was ever allowed.

It was allowed at one time, but off hand I'm not sure when it ceased to be allowed. 16th Edition might have been when it was banned.

Other national standards permit it, however.

 

[spark 68]

I can remember doing it with the RYB colours in singles for definite, I have not had a proper look through the books yet though.

I started during the 16th, as to whether to C3 it or not ?, probably no code for me in a three phase install as it stands (that may change ), particularly if it was done in RYB., I would code it C3 in a SP or domestic install though.

 

[Risteard]

probably no code for me in a three phase install as it stands (that may change )

As long as you don't believe that it gives rise to danger, then no code is warranted. As I say other national standards permit it so I'm not sure that I would consider it a terribly dangerous practice. In fact it's a practice I prefer, although when installing to BS 7671 it is not an option open to me.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I can remember doing it with the RYB colours in singles for definite, I have not had a proper look through the books yet though.

I started during the 16th, as to whether to C3 it or not ?, probably no code for me in a three phase install as it stands (that may change ), particularly if it was done in RYB., I would code it C3 in a SP or domestic install though.

Looking at 514.3.1 BGB, it states "... cores of cables shall be identified by: ..."
So, singles in conduit or trunking would be exempt! :wink_smile:


Otherwise, in this case being discussed, I'd use the 3 phase colours and mark it as a deviation, for the better identification of the circuits.

 

[Deleted member 72666]

Well in the OP's case where all the socket outlets are mounted in Dado trunking using the three phases to supply those single phase sockets, it makes perfect sense to me to use the phase colours to directly identify the phase to which a circuit is connected too throughout it's length. Why such an installation method is not now allowed is totally beyond me.

I've always used the phase colours within lab's, workshops, integrated hospital ward bedhead electrical points etc, etc trunking systems, and have no intention of changing now. As i say the reason behind such nonsense in BS7671 is beyond me, as far as i'm concerned it ''exceeds'' BS 7671 requirements....

I've seen this done a few times especially in lighting trunking where they'd used phase colours on the lighting (circa 14th edition) and thought it was a good idea until they started with the harmonised colours, it certainly tests your mettle when making alterations to circuits on the blue phase!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I believe it became unacceptable during the 16th edition with the 2004 amendment 2.
The only colour allowed to identify the line in a single phase circuit is brown.
I would apply a code C3, as it does not comply with the current edition of the Regulations, though it did at the time of design/construction.
However, it could well be argued that a code C2 should be applied.

 

[LeeH]

I remember wiring my AM2 in phase colours, as I was from a panel manufacturing background at the time. I was told then (1999/2000 ish) that all final circuits were Red., end of......as I stood and argued the ---- with the assessor.

 

[spark 68]

Thanks for the information Spin, I will try to look it up time permitting, I have a couple of 16th Ed to various Amds

Not sure about a C2 though.

 

[telectrix]

i seem to recall that under 16th, if 2 accessories on different phases were within 2m of each other, a warning label should be fitted.