PIR- Satisfactory or Unsatisfactory

Piratepete · Nov 12, 2011

I'm doing a domestic PIR for rental purposes and fixing things as I go along (I'm not working to Amend No 1 yet). There are some things I can't fix. A lighting circuit with insulation resistance L-E 300k, hidden junction boxes -both Code 3. Code 4s - no grommits, switch wires unsleeved, cable sheaths not in boxes. A farmer's DIY job. It's all RCD protected. Zsssss are fine.

Best Practice Guide No 4. says that where a code 3 is justified, I have to'exercise judgement as to whether the overall assessment of the condition of the installation should be indicated as satisfactory or unsatisfactory.
I think it's unsatisfactory, but safe. Problem is that the tenants are moving in tomorrow!

What would you do?

Pete :sailor:

Deleted member 26818 · Nov 12, 2011

The problem with issuing a code 3, is that it could be that once investigated, the code could be 1, 2, 4 or none at all.
Are you willing to sign off a report as satisfactory, on the basis of a guess?

telectrix · Nov 12, 2011

an IR reading of 300k i would consider unsatisfactory.

MarkieSparkie · Nov 12, 2011

IR reading L-E of 300K Ohms on the lighting final circuit does not comply with BS7671 (must be >1M Ohms to comply, <2M Ohms requires investigation) and is a least a PIR Code 3 requiring further investigation. If the insulation has deteriorated to the point of cracking and will breaking away from the conductors if moved or touched then PIR Code 2. If the insulation has broken away exposing the live conductors then PIR Code 1. IMO this final circuit should not be re-energised until this low IR has been improved to >2M Ohms.

malcolmsanford · Nov 13, 2011

Is there an outside light that as a little dampness in it?

telectrix · Nov 13, 2011

any fluorescent lighting. they can give you crap IR readings.

SPARTYKUS · Nov 13, 2011

Just IR them at 1kV, they'll give you no bother then.

SPARTYKUS · Nov 13, 2011

telectrix said:
an IR reading of 300k i would consider unsatisfactory.

Yeah its a switch off, or leave it at peril cos it's going to switch off soon anyway. Although it amazes me how low circuits can go even with properley functioning RCDs. Seen a sub main at 130k Ohms betwixt all three conductors. Underground JB done by bodger full of chewing gum and wet soil, chips, lard, etc

GaryM · Nov 13, 2011

Piratepete said:
Code 4s - no grommits, switch wires unsleeved, cable sheaths not in boxes.

What would you do?

No grommets with t&e plastered into a wall and outer mechanical sheath entering the backbox then I probably wouldn't give it any code. No real chance of any danger there.
Now, if the outer mechanical sheath doesn't enter the backbox, as you mentioned above, and there's no grommets then I'd probably opt for a code 2 and not a code 4.

Deleted member 9648 · Nov 13, 2011

There isnt any regulation which says grommets are required...a code would only be applicable if there was mechanical damage to the cable as a result of no grommet.

Piratepete · Nov 14, 2011

Thanks guys for all your suggestions. I think it has to be 'unsatisfactory'.

But does it need fixing before the tenants move in?

I've checked every accessory on this circuit and can confidently say that they are safe, function Ok, all earthed, Zs is fine, polarities correct, RCD tests OK.

Pete

Deleted member 26818 · Nov 14, 2011

No it doesn't need fixing as far as the Regulations are concerned.
However the Landlord's insurance may not come into effect untill it is fixed.
As such if any accident were to occur, the Landlord will be liable, and their insurance will not cover their liability.
That would be something for the Landlord or their agents to determine.