Plastic Water main with copper throughout.

[spark 68]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

Okay if we assume the gas pipe is extraneous and is bonded correctly at the correct point at the incomer to mitigate that fact, then how does the water become extraneous just by being earthy to the gas pipe via the boiler which is already bonded ? it cannot become extraneous via the plastic incomer, it is only earthy from inside the equipotential zone, unless as E54 said it runs back through zone, concrete slab etc.

 

[rattlehead85]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

Okay if we assume the gas pipe is extraneous and is bonded correctly at the correct point at the incomer to mitigate that fact, then how does the water become extraneous just by being earthy to the gas pipe via the boiler which is already bonded ? it cannot become extraneous via the plastic incomer, it is only earthy from inside the equipotential zone, unless as E54 said it runs back through zone, concrete slab etc.

Or somewhere behind the panel is either running back into the ground or links to that soil pipe i mentioned which would mean the water would require a bond right??

 

[spark 68]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

Or somewhere behind the panel is either running back into the ground or links to that soil pipe i mentioned which would mean the water would require a bond right??

Pretty much , that is why I look for the very low reading consistent with the gas bond, or the 23k or above reading.

The whole idea is to keep everything inside at the same potential, which is why we bond as near to the incomer as practical.

 

[rattlehead85]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

Right im telling the client on monday to get the bloke back to primarily get the soil pipe done as should have been from the get go and secondly advise the water which i will back up in my covering letter. Job done[emoji106]

 

[davesparks]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

It's unusual for a soil pipe to need bonding as they aren't usually available to be touched within the installation. Unless it still has the original lead wastes etc.

 

[rattlehead85]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

It's unusual for a soil pipe to need bonding as they aren't usually available to be touched within the installation. Unless it still has the original lead wastes etc.

Soil waste runs up through the bathroom cupboard slap bang next to a spur serving a low level tubular heater.

 

[Des 56]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

Man installs wiring,issues certificate (which does not include water bond because its plastic incomer) tests confirm its not extraneous
He bonds the gas service because it requires to be so

Other man comes along and fits boiler (which now links the non extraneous water pipes to the extraneous gas supply pipe)

Eicr carried out and states the water pipe "needs bonding" because it does not satisfy the inconclusive tests carried out
The tests are inconclusive because the gas cannot be separated from the water

It seems to me the original installer has a reasonable argument that his actions were valid, argument can be made by him that unclear test procedure has made this an issue rather than the original installation

 

[Geordie Spark]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

Man installs wiring,issues certificate (which does not include water bond because its plastic incomer) tests confirm its not extraneous
He bonds the gas service because it requires to be so

Other man comes along and fits boiler (which now links the non extraneous water pipes to the extraneous gas supply pipe)

Eicr carried out and states the water pipe "needs bonding" because it does not satisfy the inconclusive tests carried out
The tests are inconclusive because the gas cannot be separated from the water

It seems to me the original installer has a reasonable argument that his actions were valid, argument can be made by him that unclear test procedure has made this an issue rather than the original installation

That's it - in a nutshell! :hurray:

Now that you've cleared that up, can you clarify something that's been puzzling me all through this thread?

WHAT is this "coper" in the thread title?? :confused5:

 

[David Marshall]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

Just put one in cover your back as water still conducts and you dont know how far the plastic main goes I'm obviously using my immagination here but at least it has a MPC anyway the water my be connected to a gas combi or something. I would not dwell on this issue just put one in

 

[davesparks]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

Just put one in cover your back as water still conducts and you dont know how far the plastic main goes I'm obviously using my immagination here but at least it has a MPC anyway the water my be connected to a gas combi or something. I would not dwell on this issue just put one in

Water alone is non-conductive, impure water such as that which is supplied by the public water mains has limited conductivity.
As far as I know the volume of water in a 600mm length of 22mm plastic pipe has sufficient resistance as to be considered an insulator at 250V

 

[spark 68]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

Just put one in cover your back as water still conducts and you dont know how far the plastic main goes I'm obviously using my immagination here but at least it has a MPC anyway the water my be connected to a gas combi or something. I would not dwell on this issue just put one in

No you shouldn't "just bond" without testing and a proper assessment, you may introduce a hazard where none previously existed.

 

[Essex_]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

If the results of your test on the water main have been affected by the main bond to the gas then you have not carried out the test correctly.

Isolate the installation, then disconnect the earthing conductor from the MET (or remove test link). You then test between the incoming earth and the suspected extraneous part.

I'm not surprised you have been accused of trying to get work by unscrupulous means, a plastic water main which feeds surface clipped installation pipework is unlikely to be extraneous.

That was really good advice until the last paragraph. No need for that and ruined the thread IMO.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

Water alone is non-conductive, impure water such as that which is supplied by the public water mains has limited conductivity.
As far as I know the volume of water in a 600mm length of 22mm plastic pipe has sufficient resistance as to be considered an insulator at 250V

Finally somebody has grasped it!!

 

[GB.Kayak]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

Was called to a job yesterday where a company had completed an EICR on a house fed via a plastic water main with internal plumbing done completely in copper. They had put a c2 observation code for a lack of main protective bonding to the water. The customer had shown me the EIC cert she had been given by the original company who had completed a rewire on her property.
Disconnecting the earthing conductor at the intake position and completing an IR test to the internal stopcock on the water gave me a reading of 0 megohms. To me this has indicated that somewhere within this installation the copper pipework is earthy and deemed extraneous and does warrant a main bond. I did think this could be gaining a reading through the boiler gas connection (which is bonded) I am leaning on the side of advising the client to get the original contractor back to sort this. Opinions on this before doing so would be appreciated.

Why are you carrying out an IR test when you should be measuring the continuity or otherwise of the various components in the system? Surely IR testing serves one purpose only; a proof test of the insulation in a circuit?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Re: Plastic Water main with coper throughout.

Why are you carrying out an IR test when you should be measuring the continuity or otherwise of the various components in the system? Surely IR testing serves one purpose only; a proof test of the insulation in a circuit?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v38PfIVy2rI

watch this it'll explain it.